two hands, no idea what i'm doing

[donkbee]

No idea whatsoever ... check/call the flop and then come out betting?? What does he have? And what do you do here?

Game # 239993645 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,25/0,50 - Table "Falkenberg"
Game ended 2006-02-05 10:20:31 GMT+01:00

Players:
Rasmus3 (EUR 156,42 in seat 1)
Kanon (EUR 50,75 in seat 2)
Rookie1972 (EUR 40,77 in seat 3)
courtiebee (EUR 42,00 in seat 4)
foozballz (EUR 93,62 in seat 5)
liinkson (EUR 18,90 in seat 7)
dramudo (EUR 91,53 in seat 8)

Dealer: courtiebee
Small Blind: foozballz (0,25)
Big Blind: liinkson (0,50)

courtiebee was dealt: Ad - Ks

dramudo Call (0,50)
Rasmus3 Call (0,50)
Kanon Fold
Rookie1972 Fold
courtiebee Raise (2,00)
foozballz Fold
liinkson Fold
dramudo Call (1,50)
Rasmus3 Call (1,50)

Flop Kh - Tc - 6s

dramudo Check
Rasmus3 Check
courtiebee Bet (3,00)
dramudo Call (3,00)
Rasmus3 Fold

Turn Kh - Tc - 6s - Th

dramudo Bet (9,25)
courtiebee ?


Do you bet the turn? Was my bet enough? Is checking the river okay? Being OOP sucks

Game # 239995960 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,25/0,50 - Table "Falkenberg"
Game ended 2006-02-05 10:25:34 GMT+01:00

Players:
Rasmus3 (EUR 153,42 in seat 1)
Kanon (EUR 47,35 in seat 2)
Rookie1972 (EUR 38,27 in seat 3)
courtiebee (EUR 56,45 in seat 4)
foozballz (EUR 93,37 in seat 5)
Jimmy55 (EUR 13,95 in seat 6)
liinkson (EUR 10,85 in seat 7)
dramudo (EUR 92,38 in seat 8)

Dealer: Rookie1972
Small Blind: courtiebee (0,25)
Big Blind: foozballz (0,50)

courtiebee was dealt: Ks - Kc

Jimmy55 Fold
liinkson Fold
dramudo Call (0,50)
Rasmus3 Fold
Kanon Fold
Rookie1972 Fold
courtiebee Raise (1,50)
foozballz Call (1,25)
dramudo Call (1,25)

Flop Td - 7d - 8h

courtiebee Bet (3,00)
foozballz Raise (6,00)
dramudo Fold
courtiebee Call (3,00)

Turn Td - 7d - 8h - 8s

courtiebee Bet (10,00)
foozballz Call (10,00)

River Td - 7d - 8h - 8s - 6h

courtiebee Check
foozballz Check

[strawman]

Regarding the first hand, I'm leaning towards your opponent having Kx since he check/called. If he had a ten I doubt he would have led out on the turn. His bet suggest to me that he is trying to scare you out of the pot knowing that the board paired and if you call his kicker might come into play.


I think you did as much as you could to get rid of the junk in your second hand. Unfortunately it was a farily coordinated board throughout the hand and I can't see your getting much value out of betting the river. A reraise here would be a difficult decision.

[pgil]

pf raise looks a little small on the KK hand given that there was a limper in already.

[Irisheyes]

First hand fold the turn. You don't wanna get deep with TPTK. You're being trapped by a better hand.

2nd one, reraise the flop and fold to a push is the standard line here.

[Miffed22001]

preflop is ugly in both.
raise more.
both hands play HU not multiway.
hand1.
min raise the turn. Lets see if he has it or has enough balls to push on a bluff. You can find lots of reasons to fols here but i think opp has you on AQ (they so dumb!) so raise.
hand2.
horrible flop. My play is to check raise but if you bet it and get min raised take the cheap turn and se how opp wants to play it. Turn bet is good. Opp just called so id block bet the river. Fold to a reraise but i think KK goot

[daluchy]

Sigh. We've been through this before. Isolate isolate isolate! Bigger pre-flop raises on both.

Hand 1 looks like a trap. I'd bet the flop bigger and avoid getting into a big pot with TPTK on the turn. The sequence looks like how I'd play 66.

Hand 2 either a trap, overpair, or a semi-bluff with the minraise on the flop. Reraise the flop and make him pay to hit his draws or make it easier to lay kings down if he raises overtop again.

Post-flop is fine, but remember who's giving u the advice here

[strawman]

Since there have been two responses that believe the first hand is a trap I'm curious about the reasoning behind it since I'm leaning towards a Kx. If I hit a boat on the turn I'd lean towards checking again since I would expect my opponent to bet out again. A free card here is unlikely to hurt me if he checks behind. If I hit trips on the turn I probably wouldn't bet ~3/4 of the pot when a 1/2 pot bet achieves the same means and is more likely to induce a bad call. I think this bet is trying to buy the pot because a boat doesn't worry about the flush or straight and trips can still lay bad odds to call the river along with having plenty of outs.

[daluchy]

Since there have been two responses that believe the first hand is a trap I'm curious about the reasoning behind it since I'm leaning towards a Kx.

Well sometimes betting out your monster hands is more of a trap and I've done and seen it several times at NL50 @ MartinsPoker. Because you would think "why is that person betting on such a turn? they must not have a monster" then you go call or raise right into their hands

[strawman]

Since there have been two responses that believe the first hand is a trap I'm curious about the reasoning behind it since I'm leaning towards a Kx.

Well sometimes betting out your monster hands is more of a trap and I've done and seen it several times at NL50 @ MartinsPoker. Because you would think "why is that person betting on such a turn? they must not have a monster" then you go call or raise right into their hands

Taking this into consideration which is something I had contemplated, I'm still having a hard time believing this is a good play. It's one thing to flop a monster and bet into the raiser, but it's another to check/call the flop and get your monster hand on the turn and place a strong bet into the preflop raiser. Assuming hero folds did the villian extract any value out of his hand?

I'm curious how this hand played out since I'm finding it very instructive.

[donkbee]

I thought along the same lines as you, strawman. While I really do think it's a possibility that some people might bet this on the turn as a trap, I think that most people would be inclined to check. Reads would help in this type of situation ...

If you're interested in the results for the first hand, I pushed on the turn after his bet, and he folded.

[dthorne04]

I thought along the same lines as you, strawman. While I really do think it's a possibility that some people might bet this on the turn as a trap, I think that most people would be inclined to check. Reads would help in this type of situation ...

If you're interested in the results for the first hand, I pushed on the turn after his bet, and he folded.

A lot of thinking players will fire that turn if they can correctly put you on a hand like AK, and have either trip tens, or sixes full if they think they can stack up. Because usual logic says he'll slowplay there to trap. Nevertheless, nh.

[daluchy]

Sounds good. Sometimes you can give your Op too much credit for being a thinking player, hehe.

I got bluffed out of a hand like this last night cause some guy went in for 120e in a 50e pot and the drawy board just paired the 2nd highest card so my TPTK didn't seem so good on the river. Too bad he just had a lower pair that missed his draw, guess it's mostly read dependent.

[Fnord]

If you're interested in the results for the first hand, I pushed on the turn after his bet, and he folded.

Worst possible option, DUCY?

[donkbee]

If you're interested in the results for the first hand, I pushed on the turn after his bet, and he folded.

Worst possible option, DUCY?

I know it was a very bad play, that's why I posted and wanted to know what the right option was.

Hands that beat me call, hands that are worse fold?

There are a few varying opinions in this thread. How do YOU play it, Fnord?

[Lukie]

If you're interested in the results for the first hand, I pushed on the turn after his bet, and he folded.

Worst possible option, DUCY?

I know it was a very bad play, that's why I posted and wanted to know what the right option was.

Hands that beat me call, hands that are worse fold?

There are a few varying opinions in this thread. How do YOU play it, Sir Lukie?

fyp. I'm bored.

h1: with 2 limpers in front, you should bump it up a bit more here. I like ~5xish total. Raising to 5.5x would be a pot sized raise which is roughly what I like to shoot for preflop. As played, flop bet is too weak. This is a pretty tough situation with multiple callers and you are only about 80bb deep. It's very easy to lose your stack here. Nonetheless, you have a solid hand and you need to bet it agressively.

As played, turn is tough. I'm looking for reasons to get out, not that i'm necessarily going to. There's really no value of raising here as only a better hands can call and there's little chance of getting drawn out on if you are ahead. I'm looking to get out, but I can find a call here sometimes.

I was gonna do the other hand but I'm really bored and tired. I think I'm gonna get some sleep. Maybe in the morning.

[renegaderob1]

Since there have been two responses that believe the first hand is a trap I'm curious about the reasoning behind it since I'm leaning towards a Kx. If I hit a boat on the turn I'd lean towards checking again since I would expect my opponent to bet out again. A free card here is unlikely to hurt me if he checks behind. If I hit trips on the turn I probably wouldn't bet ~3/4 of the pot when a 1/2 pot bet achieves the same means and is more likely to induce a bad call. I think this bet is trying to buy the pot because a boat doesn't worry about the flush or straight and trips can still lay bad odds to call the river along with having plenty of outs.

Against a thinking player my fav. set line is: check call flop and then pot the turn. This works especially well if the flop is rags, but the turn is an overcard (assuming the overcard hits the other guy as well) - I got ihategnomes goot with this in one of the gauntlets :P

[Fnord]

There's really no value of raising here as only a better hands can call and there's little chance of getting drawn out on if you are ahead.

Let him bluff off his money, if you're going to raise, pushing is terrible because you lose the max when he has it and don't give him a chance to 3-bet bluff if you're going to take this to the felt anyway.