25nl QQ hand...

[Renton]

No reads here.

1) Should I have not called the 10 dollar reraise?
2) Should I have not folded to the flop bet?

I decided to call the preflop reraise because he had like 2.5 times that left in his stack, plus the possibility of the other people calling, made the implied odds reasonable for hitting the set of Qs.


***** Hand History for Game 2930057750 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 04, 15:27:25 EDT 2006
Table Table 36629 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: omarrrano ( $48.41 )
Seat 6: Polkozic ( $19.53 )
Seat 8: play_tuff ( $26.52 )
Seat 9: dazed2727 ( $37.60 )
Seat 10: Renton555 ( $39.90 )
Seat 5: ptrbgood ( $29.95 )
Seat 4: fernando2112 ( $31.95 )
Seat 7: vegaslama ( $45.55 )
Seat 2: Unnulv ( $28.40 )
Seat 1: steinasd ( $11.75 )
>You have options at Table 36582 Table!.
vegaslama posts small blind [$0.10].
play_tuff posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Qd Qh ]
dazed2727 raises [$1.50].
Renton555 raises [$2.75].
steinasd folds.
Unnulv folds.
omarrrano folds.
fernando2112 folds.
ptrbgood folds.
Polkozic folds.
vegaslama calls [$2.65].
>You have options at Table 36568 Table!.
play_tuff calls [$2.50].
dazed2727 raises [$8.50].
Renton555 calls [$7.25].
>You have options at Table 36582 Table!.
vegaslama folds.
play_tuff folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Th, 5s, 4h ]
steinasd: wow - i wish i had somthing
>You have options at Table 36568 Table!.
dazed2727 is all-In [$27.60]
omarrrano: dam
Renton555 folds.
dazed2727 does not show cards.
dazed2727 wins $51.85
>You have options at Table 36582 Table!.

[Fnord]

I decided to call the preflop reraise because he had like 2.5 times that left in his stack, plus the possibility of the other people calling, made the implied odds reasonable for hitting the set of Qs.

What are your odds of making a set? How do you figure implied odds?

[Renton]

I decided to call the preflop reraise because he had like 2.5 times that left in his stack, plus the possibility of the other people calling, made the implied odds reasonable for hitting the set of Qs.

What are your odds of making a set? How do you figure implied odds?

he had 2.5 times the reraise in his stack.

There were two players left to act, who may have called the reraise, hence doubling the implied odds (if they woulda called), plus like another 8 bucks or so in dead money. Also factoring in the chance that the flop could be scary (like an A if he had KK), giving me a chance to represent.

I didn't think it was a horrible call, but definitely borderline.

You would have folded there, right Fnord?

[Fnord]

You would have folded there, right Fnord?

If I make the pre-flop call, all my money goes in on the flop.

[outphase]

You're only ~12% of catching your set, if he only had 2.5x left, your implied odds were terrible

[Renton]

You're only ~12% of catching your set, if he only had 2.5x left, your implied odds were terrible

I got an A in math.

I realize that 1/8 < 1/2.5

I was figuring in the other variables. Its not just the villains stack that determines the implied odds.

[nutsinho]

You use that an excuse when really you just didn't want to lay it down...

[Pelion]

Youre right it isnt just his stack that determines implied odds..... sometimes it can be less....but it can never be more. You can get alot of callers but you still need your 10:1

[Renton]

You use that an excuse when really you just didn't want to lay it down...

True.

I realize this wasn't a great call. I am just wondering how 'not great' it was.

I mean, party 25nl players are capable of betting this hard with AK!

[Renton]

Youre right it isnt just his stack that determines implied odds..... sometimes it can be less....but it can never be more. You can get alot of callers but you still need your 10:1

I think you are incorrect. In a heads up pot, sure you need 10x to play a pair for the set. But in a three way, it would probably be profitable at like 5x or 6x (which, obviously, I was even worse than this in this case)

[bdawg56kg]

I think you are incorrect. In a heads up pot, sure you need 10x to play a pair for the set. But in a three way, it would probably be profitable at like 5x or 6x (which, obviously, I was even worse than this in this case)

I think your logic is correct, but the numbers might not be. I myself am not sure about what the exact numbers should be for estimating implied odds when the pot is multi-way, but my guess is that the number of extra callers has very little impact on your implied odds, especially when you're looking at big raises and reraises before the flop. So maybe in this case the effective stacks would have to be 9x the raise preflop instead of 10x, something like that, but definitely not 5x or 6x IMO.

Also, you shouldn't go into a hand or call a raise like you did with the intent of trying to bluff if an ace flops. Those kind of situational bluffs happen on the fly when you sense some weakness, not planning it out preflop. As played, I fold to the $8.50 raise preflop. Against an unknown, I give them the benefit of the doubt here and fold.

[Fnord]

Youre right it isnt just his stack that determines implied odds..... sometimes it can be less....but it can never be more. You can get alot of callers but you still need your 10:1

I'll go down to 8:1ish if there are other players in the hand who are juicing the pot and have the potencial to pay off.