Heads-up against a tilting maniac (PokerRoom 50+5)

[mcatdog]

This is the entire hand history of a heads-up match I just played against a maniac who had just finished sucking out on the entire rest of the table. For most of the match, he was going all-in preflop with any two cards. There was a period of a few hands where he started playing normally, so I played a few flops with him, but after I called him down and won with an underpair he went back on tilt and it was preflop poker for the remainder of the match.

I usually beat these buffoons, but I find myself losing to them a lot more often than is acceptable to me. The point of this thread is to discuss how you achieve an optimal win rate against this type of player when you have an effective stack of 30 big blinds or more. Was I too patient, or not patient enough? Looking back and trying not to be results-oriented, I think maybe Hand 22 and Hand 44 I could've found better spots later on than risking my stack with these marginal hands. Is there a way I can figure out with math, what hands to play, based on my stack size?


HAND 1
Maniac: 15790
Hero: 4210

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 3.
Maniac raises to 500, Hero folds.


HAND 2
Maniac: 15940
Hero: 4060

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 9.
Hero folds.


HAND 3
Maniac: 16015
Hero: 3985

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 7.
Maniac raises to 500, Hero folds.


HAND 4
Maniac: 16165
Hero: 3835

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, 2.
Hero folds.


HAND 5
Maniac: 16240
Hero: 3760

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 6.
Maniac raises to 400, Hero calls 400.

Flop: (800) Q, 2, 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 400, Hero raises to 1400, Maniac folds.


HAND 6
Maniac: 15365
Hero: 4635

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, 2.
Hero folds.


HAND 7
Maniac: 15440
Hero: 4560

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 4.
Maniac raises to 15440 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 8
Maniac: 15590
Hero: 4410

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, T.
Hero calls 75, Maniac raises to 15590 and is all-in, Hero calls 4260 and is all-in.

Flop: (8820) Q, 3, J.

Turn: (8820) 9.

River: (8820) 9.

Maniac shows 5, 4.
Hero shows 10, 10.
Hero wins 8820.


HAND 9
Maniac: 11180
Hero: 8820

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 6.
Maniac raises to 11180 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 10
Maniac: 11330
Hero: 8670

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, T.
Hero folds.


HAND 11
Maniac: 11405
Hero: 8595

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 3.
Maniac folds.


HAND 12
Maniac: 11330
Hero: 8670

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 4.
Hero folds.


HAND 13
Maniac: 11405
Hero: 8595

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 8.
Maniac calls 75, Hero checks.

Flop: (300) K, 5, T (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 400, Hero folds.


HAND 14
Maniac: 11555
Hero: 8445

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, 2.
Hero folds.


HAND 15
Maniac: 11630
Hero: 8370

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 2.
Maniac bets 900, Hero folds.


HAND 16
Maniac: 11780
Hero: 8220

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, 8.
Hero folds.


HAND 17
Maniac: 11855
Hero: 8145

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, T.
Maniac folds.


HAND 18
Maniac: 11780
Hero: 8220

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, K.
Hero calls 75, Maniac checks.

Flop: (300) J, A, 6. (2 players)
Maniac checks, Hero bets 300, Maniac folds.


HAND 19
Maniac: 11630
Hero: 8370

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 9.
Maniac bets 400, Hero folds.


HAND 20
Maniac: 11780
Hero: 8220

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, Q.
Hero folds.


HAND 21
Maniac: 11855
Hero: 8145

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, J.
Maniac calls 75, Hero checks.

Flop: (300) T, 2, Q. (2 players)
Hero bets 200, Maniac raises to 700, Hero folds.


HAND 22
Maniac: 12205
Hero: 7795

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 5
Hero calls 75, Maniac checks.

Flop: (300) Q, A, 2. (2 players)
Maniac checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (300) 2. (2 players)
Maniac bets 500, Hero calls.

River: (1300) 9. (2 players)
Maniac bets 2000, Hero calls.

Maniac shows 6, 8.
Hero shows 5, 5.
Hero wins 5300.


HAND 23
Maniac: 9555
Hero: 10445

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 3.
Maniac raises to 9555 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 24
Maniac: 9705
Hero: 10295

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 4
Hero folds.


HAND 25
Maniac: 9780
Hero: 10220

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, J.
Maniac calls 75, Hero checks.

Flop: (300) 6, 7, 8. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 700, Hero calls 700.

Turn: (1700) 4. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 8930 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 26
Maniac: 10630
Hero: 9370

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, A
Hero folds.


HAND 27
Maniac: 10705
Hero: 9295

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, K.
Maniac raises to 400, Hero calls 250.

Flop: (800) Q, Q, J. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac checks.

Turn: (800) Q. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac checks.

River: (800) 2. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 3000, Hero folds.


HAND 28
Maniac: 11180
Hero: 8820

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, 4.
Hero folds.


HAND 29
Maniac: 11280
Hero: 8720

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 6.
Maniac raises to 400, Hero folds.


HAND 30
Maniac: 11480
Hero: 8520

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, 2.
Hero folds.


HAND 31
Maniac: 11580
Hero: 8420

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 9.
Maniac raises to 400, Hero calls 200.

Flop: (800) 4, 7, J. (2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 800, Hero folds.


HAND 32
Maniac: 11980
Hero: 8020

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, 8.
Hero calls 100, Maniac raises to 3000, Hero folds.


HAND 33
Maniac: 12180
Hero: 7820

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 2.
Maniac raises to 2000, Hero folds.


HAND 34
Maniac: 12380
Hero: 7620

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, 4.
Hero folds.


HAND 35
Maniac: 12480
Hero: 7520

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, Q.
Maniac raises to 3000, Hero folds.


HAND 36
Maniac: 12680
Hero: 7320

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 6.
Hero folds.


HAND 37
Maniac: 12780
Hero: 7220

Preflop: Hero is BB with T, A
Maniac raises to 3000, Hero raises to 7220 and is all-in, Maniac calls 4220.

Flop: 6, 5, 6.

Turn: 5.

River:3.

Hero shows T, A.
Maniac shows A, 3.
Maniac wins 7220, Hero wins 7220.


HAND 38
Maniac: 12780
Hero: 7220

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, K.
Hero folds.


HAND 39
Maniac: 12880
Hero: 7120

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 6.
Maniac raises to 500, Hero calls 400.

Flop: (1000) K, 5, T. [color=blue](2 players)
Hero checks, Maniac bets 700, Hero folds.


HAND 40
Maniac: 13480
Hero: 6520

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, T.
Hero folds.


HAND 41
Maniac: 13580
Hero: 6420

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 3.
Maniac raises to 2000, Hero folds.


HAND 42
Maniac: 13780
Hero: 6220

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6, T.
Hero folds.


HAND 43
Maniac: 13880
Hero: 6120

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 8.
Maniac raises to 700, Hero folds.


HAND 44
Maniac: 14080
Hero: 5920

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J.
Hero calls 100, Maniac raises to 900, Hero raises to 5920 and is all-in, Maniac calls 5020.

Flop: 8, J, K.

Turn: 2.

River: 3.

Hero shows Q, J.
Maniac shows 8, Q.
Hero wins 11840.


HAND 45
Maniac: 8160
Hero: 11840

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 7.
Maniac raises to 8160 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 46
Maniac: 8360
Hero: 11640

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, J.
Hero folds.


HAND 47
Maniac: 8460
Hero: 11540

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 6.
Maniac raises to 900, Hero folds.


HAND 48
Maniac: 8660
Hero: 11340

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, K.
Hero folds.


HAND 49
Maniac: 8760
Hero: 11240

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, 5.
Maniac raises to 8760 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 50
Maniac: 8960
Hero: 11040

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 8.
Hero folds.


HAND 51
Maniac: 9060
Hero: 10940

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 6.
Maniac raises to 9060 and is all-in, Hero folds.


HAND 52
Maniac: 9260
Hero: 10740

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, J.
Hero folds.


HAND 53
Maniac: 9360
Hero: 10640

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, Q.
Maniac raises to 1100, Hero folds.


HAND 54
Maniac: 9560
Hero: 10440

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 3.
Hero folds.


HAND 55
Maniac: 9660
Hero: 10340

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 7.
Maniac raises to 800, Hero folds.


HAND 56
Maniac: 9860
Hero: 10140

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 7.
Hero calls 100, Maniac raises to 2200, Hero raises to 10140 and is all-in, Maniac calls 7660 and is all-in.

Flop: 8 Q Q.

Turn: A.

River: K.

Hero shows 7, 7.
Maniac shows 4, J.
Hero wins 19720.

[Scuba Chuck]

Hand 21: Um, do you understand implied odds? There's a good chance this is over on the turn. And, I would not fold if I completed my straight and it was a spade.

Hand 22: I think you should have mixed it up a bit against him (after trapping with TT in hand 8), this is a better raise. But, ballsy call down.

Hand 24: I'd complete or raise here. In your entire game so far, you have not raised against him. So when you do get a hand, you haven't mixed it up enough for him not to figure out your pattern. If you raise here, and he pushes, and you fold, that is great, obviously setting up for future reasons. But I think a few raises and folds to pushes will setup nicely.

Hand 25: Any reason you didn't play the flop stronger?

Hand 26: There's quite a few of these, this is my last comment. You should be playing this hand somehow, even if it's a raise/fold.

Hand 27: I would have bet the turn for 400. Also, you likely have the best hand, unless you really think he has a 2.

Hand 39: I'd like to hear your thoughts on this hand more.

Hand 44: After hand 39, you do this?

Man, I'm glad you won this. You made this quite difficult on yourself. I think your style is generally a winning style, but you played one gear throughout the entire play. I don't think you raised once. You nearly never completed (and he showed some restraint to check).

Anyway, I think your play is good for cash game purposes. I think you found yourself in a couple of potential coinflips anyhow, so I think really, all you lost was $/hr.

[GatorJH]

Chuck made some great points. I too think you played WAY too tight for a heads up match. A's, K's PP's and connectors are all great starting hands when you are heads up. Come in with these in variations of raises/calls just to prevent your opponent from figuring you out too easily.

[mcatdog]

Thanks Chuck. I never raised preflop or "changed gears" because it seemed to me that it wouldn't have much value, if any, against this opponent. If I was raising with a hand like A6 that I planned to fold to a re-raise, I thought the chances of my raise taking down the blinds were so low that the raise was very -EV. Also, I think raising and folding to a push would have been completely unnecessary as a "setup" play. He was blasting away every single time I "showed weakness," even though it was blatantly obvious that I was only completing the blinds with strong hands. I was confident that if I picked up a real monster, I'd be able to get it all-in no matter what, so spewing chips with A6 to set up future reraises by him was pointless.

I have no idea why I folded to his raise on Hand 21. What a terrible fold that was.

I folded on Hand 39 because I didn't like the flop. Those two overcards were both very likely to either have hit him or else given him some kind of a draw. Note the difference between this hand and Hand 5 where I was comfortable going with my 66 on a flop that looked like it didn't hit him at all.

Hand 44 was an awful play when I had plenty of time to wait for a better spot.

Chuck made some great points. I too think you played WAY too tight for a heads up match. A's, K's PP's and connectors are all great starting hands when you are heads up. Come in with these in variations of raises/calls just to prevent your opponent from figuring you out too easily.

That isn't what Chuck was saying at all. He was saying that I should have taken advantage of more situations where I likely had the best of it, not raise with connected trash that can't even beat a random hand. Did you even read through the hand history? This guy folded preflop about three times and went all-in preflop with 54o and J4o! You can't make blanket statements about how tight one should play in a heads up match. Playing heads-up is about adjusting to your opponent and exploiting his weaknesses. This opponent's weakness was that he was throwing his chips around like confetti. The way to exploit that is to play very tight and only get involved in a pot if you have a solid hand. What would be the value of raising a connector? He'd probably go all-in and I'd have to fold, and if even if he just called, I'd probably have the worst hand. Besides, my opponent didn't figure me out at all. Every time I completed from the small blind, I had a good hand, but he still raised almost every time, even with trash.

[GatorJH]

The way to exploit that is to play very tight and only get involved in a pot if you have a solid hand.

Actually I did read through the hand history, so let me pick out some hands as examples.

Note: All calculations are against a random hand and were generated with Pokerstove

Hand 8 - TcTd - 75% fav pre-flop - You called and re-raised all-in from SB
Hand 24 - Ah4h - 59% fav pre-flop - You folded from the SB
Hand 25 - QcJc - 60% fav pre-flop - You checked from the BB
Hand 26 - As6d - 57% fav pre-flop - You folded from the SB
Hand 27 - Kd9c - 58% fav pre-flop - You called his raise from the BB
Hand 28 - As6d - 57% fav pre-flop - You folded from the SB
Hand 35 - Qh9h - 57% fav pre-flop - You folded his raise from the BB
Hand 37 - AhTs - 62% fav pre-flop - You re-raised all-in from the BB
Hand 38 - Kh6h - 56% fav pre-flop - You folded from the SB
Hand 44 - QdJs - 58% fav pre-flop - Called and re-raised all-in from SB
Hand 48 - Kd9c - 58% fav pre-flop - Folded from the SB
Hand 53 - Qd9c - 55% fav pre-flop - Folded from the SB
Hand 56 - 7s7d - 66% fav pre-flop - Called and re-raised all-in from SB

You got all of your chips in the pot pre-flop 4 times. Outside of the two obvious hands where you had PP's (hands 8 and 56) the other two times you were a 58% and 62% favorite to win the hand pre-flop. However, there were, at least (I didn't check all of the hands, just the obvious ones to me), an additional 9 hands where you were between a 55% and 60% favorite pre-flop where you did NOT get all of your chips in the middle pre-flop.

Why push hands 37 and 44, but not 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 35, 38, 48 and 53 when there is 7% or less difference in edge between all of these hands.

Is there something that I am missing (which could certainly be the case as I am absolutely not claiming to be at the same level as you guys are)? I am just trying to better understand so I can improve.

[biondino]

The difference is presumably that mcat KNEW that he would beat the guy with a little patience and not too much bad luck. By knew, I mean maybe believed he had a 75%+ chance of winning if he played it slow and steady - so why put his tourney on the line with plays which suffered less favourable odds?

(I say this after also being frustrated at a lot of the hands above "ah cool, he's bound to push with... WHAT, another fold, Jesus", but the more I read, the more obvious it seemed that patience would eventually beat the maniac. Excellently read and played, mcatdog)

[mcatdog]

Good post, GatorJH. After reading those probabilities I'm pretty sure I misplayed quite a few hands. One thing I'd like to point out in my defense is that the deeper the effective stacks are, the fewer hands I should be willing to go all-in with. With deep stacks I have more time to wait for a monster hand with a very high chance of beating him, not just a 60% chance. With the QJ hand I considered that I was getting short enough to start taking a stand, which was probably a mistake on my part. I would have gone all-in with the Ax hands too, at that point.

This was sort of the point of me posting this hand history, actually. I think we ought to be able to come up with some sort of formula for how to play against this type of maniac, based on the effective stack sizes.

[GatorJH]

The difference is presumably that mcat KNEW that he would beat the guy with a little patience and not too much bad luck. By knew, I mean maybe believed he had a 75%+ chance of winning if he played it slow and steady - so why put his tourney on the line with plays which suffered less favourable odds?

(I say this after also being frustrated at a lot of the hands above "ah cool, he's bound to push with... WHAT, another fold, Jesus", but the more I read, the more obvious it seemed that patience would eventually beat the maniac. Excellently read and played, mcatdog)

What's interesting, is that as I was going through putting together that last post I could actually start to see, and understand, mcat's strategy and can now see his original point. Although I do think that stack sizes and blinds also play a part in deciding when to push and when to lay back I see the benefit of slowing down tremendously to someone who is as aggressive as his opponent was.

From what I noticed you there are a couple of areas where he did a great job and these areas point out how to attack a maniac.

1) If you can somehow sneak into a couple of pots when you have a slight edge, you can possibly hit your hand and trap them there.

2) When you have a monster hand you have to try and trap him as any aggression will look out of the norm.

3) When a maniac slows down - LOOK OUT. I thought you did a good job of not falling into, what appeared to be, his traps.

Finally, after reviewing this in greater detail (which certainly has helped me in the long run so the effort was worth the time) I think overall mcat did a very good job at staying patient, and although there may have been an instance or two where he could have been more aggressive he played this nicely.

[GatorJH]

Good post, GatorJH. After reading those probabilities I'm pretty sure I misplayed quite a few hands. One thing I'd like to point out in my defense is that the deeper the effective stacks are, the fewer hands I should be willing to go all-in with. With deep stacks I have more time to wait for a monster hand with a very high chance of beating him, not just a 60% chance. With the QJ hand I considered that I was getting short enough to start taking a stand, which was probably a mistake on my part. I would have gone all-in with the Ax hands too, at that point.

This was sort of the point of me posting this hand history, actually. I think we ought to be able to come up with some sort of formula for how to play against this type of maniac, based on the effective stack sizes.

last night I was JUST looking at hand probabilities, however I completely agree with your statement above regarding chip stacks and should have taken that into consideration.

I would like to hear everyone's opinion on where you should start pushing a greater range of hands. Is it when he has a 2 to 1 edge on you or do you wait until it is closer to 3 to 1 (Note: I know that blinds will also play a part in this, but lets assume for now that the bllinds are at a manageable level).

[GatorJH]

MCAT - YOU ARE THE MANNNN!!!! for posting this. I just completed a $11 SNG on Stars and got heads up agaisnt the most aggressive player on the table. When we started our chips stacks were almost identical.

I stayed ultra patient and folded hands that before yesterday would have played and was able to trap him when I hit my hands (he let me limp in from the BB some). 11 hands later I had taken him down. I didn't have to wait as long as you did because he let me into enough hands that I was able to catch a few and trap him, but the philosophy was the same.

I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!

Let me know if you want me to post the hands to review (I don't want to hijack your thread).

[Scuba Chuck]

With deep stacks I have more time to wait for a monster hand with a very high chance of beating him, not just a 60% chance.

FWIW, there are only two times where I think this is significantly emphasized.

1) In a steep payout structure ( think WSOP )
2) All you care about is first

There are other considerations besides what you're concerned about here. Of course, you did run unbelievably card dead, and that just happens. But I see more than two hands where I see folding as pretty poor poker. I guess the question we have to ask ourselves is, do you think you're going to be in a spot where you're going to have a 3:1 advantage or better against this guy often enough to shoot for the $100, or is $/hr more important? Just thoughts. There is no right answer.

[Borax]

What I would have done after looking through only the first post:

Hand 5: push
Hand 18: raise
Hand 19: call
Hand 21: call and see the turn, if you hit here he’s dead
Hand 22: raise and push to a reraise
Hand 24: raise
Hand 25: raise and push to a reraise
Hand 26. raise or call
Hand 28: raise or call
Hand 36. raise or call
Hand 38: raise
Hand 39: push
Hand 46: raise
Hand 48: raise
Hand 50: call or raise
Hand 53: call

Patience is good, I trapped one of these guys with a flopped straight yesterday with even stacks, but I would still have been a bit more active.