QQ and JJ profitability

[RevolverX]

I'm wondering how I can utilize these two hands to be more profitable. After laying down my fourth consecutive QQ today, I've begun to question just how profitable QQ and JJ are.

I know it's in the poker bible that you must raise preflop with these two hands, but logically speaking, which hands are going to call a preflop raise against this? AA KK AK AQ AJ KQ etc. All too often when I play QQ the flop hits with an Ace or king it, and my villains bet away forcing me to throw it away, losing 4xbb, a potential straight hits the board and my opponents imply odds to me by reraising my BB like crazy, or a potential flush hits.

When I look at my winnings for QQ and JJ, I've basically just stole blinds, or some preflop calls with QQ, and I'm down with JJ.

Thoughts?

[andy-akb]

From the sound of a lot of your posts I feel like you are playing way too weak tight at these levels and laying down way too many hands against any action. Everytime I was raised in $10NL I didnt look for the nuts and assume my opponent had it. How many hands is this over? Its hard to say "this is how you play QQ and JJ" w/o actually seeing specific hands and boards, etc. Post some of the ones that you laid down against a perceived straight or higher pair, it would be interesting to see the lines and would allow us to critique your play.

[RevolverX]

You're right, I typically throw great hands away on big reraises or all ins. I'll dig through my hand history later and show you the QQs and JJs I threw away, but generally speaking if I have QQ and the flop comes 2 7 A, and I'm OOP and bet 60-80% of the pot and get reraised 3x I would generally say the guy has an Ace. These are the situations I throw QQ away.

[andy-akb]

generally speaking if I have QQ and the flop comes 2 7 A, and I'm OOP and bet 60-80% of the pot and get reraised 3x I would generally say the guy has an Ace. These are the situations I throw QQ away.

Typically thats what I will do too, but it all depends on the opponent. If i feel my opponent is doing this with air then I will 3bet, most of the time this is a fold though. However, for the times where you are in position, if the flop comes Ace-rag-rag and somebody leads you cant automatically assume you are beat, and sometimes you should raise there and see how he responds. Again, it all depends on the particulars of the hand.

[RevolverX]

Here's my most recent QQ laydown. Just happened.

PokerStars Game #4947654894: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2006/05/15 - 21:14:19 (ET)
Table 'Gisela' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: hugosg ($10.20 in chips)
Seat 2: LSUTiger_nky ($9.70 in chips)
Seat 3: DA H.N.I.C. ($4.29 in chips)
Seat 5: rtorpy ($3.93 in chips)
Seat 7: Hero ($16.94 in chips)
Seat 8: swimmer70 ($4.57 in chips)
Seat 9: Helcul ($9.95 in chips)
Helcul: posts small blind $0.02
hugosg: posts big blind $0.05
OldePaddy: sits out
scottwayne: sits out

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Qd]
LSUTiger_nky: raises $0.05 to $0.10
DA H.N.I.C.: folds
rtorpy: folds
Hero: raises $0.30 to $0.40
swimmer70: folds
Helcul: folds
hugosg: calls $0.35
LSUTiger_nky: calls $0.30

*** FLOP *** [Ks 5s 2h]
hugosg: bets $0.75
LSUTiger_nky: folds
Hero: raises $2.25 to $3
hugosg: calls $2.25

*** TURN *** [Ks 5s 2h] [Ad]
hugosg: bets $3.50
Hero: folds


EDIT: This is becoming a big leak for me. I lost almost a buyin from this hand, even though I layed it down. I could really use some advice on how to play these better.

[Muley05]

To me, that hand history looks ok. I like the raise on villains post flop bet, and it wass a good, strong raise. And I would have also fold to the turn bet since there were two overs.

[andy-akb]

There isnt much else you can do with this hand, I was going to say raise more preflop, but Im not really sure about standard raises at $5nl, $.50+ wouldnt be bad though. On the flop I like the raise assuming hugosg isnt incredibly passive, on that turn you have to fold. You cant do anything about overcards hitting.

[Cocco_Bill]

No way QQ JJ is profitable. FOLD THAT JUNK!

[Lukie]

yeah for real, there only the 3rd and 4th best hands in holdem (and my 3rd and 4th most profitable hands to boot). You could just go ultra-nit style and play for set value... or perhaps this thread will be of help?

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-34961.htm

Alright, on a more serious note . Both of these hands should be auto-raises in unraised pots, and I'm usually re-popping a raise with queens and sometimes with jacks. This depends on a lot of factors though. Sure, post-flop they can be difficult to play with an overcard on the board, but they still have value and often times you can overrepresent your hand and take down the pot anyway (although in these cases you often have the best hand anyway). An example would be something like... MP opens for 4x, you make a pot sized raise with QQ in late position, he calls, flop is Kxx, he checks to you, you bet, repping AA/KK/AK. Unless he has a big hand or draw himself, you will take down the pot with a bet. If you encounter any resistance, just cut your losses and shut down.

Don't be the kind of player that limps queens. Trust me when I say they are EXTREMELY easy to play against.