Turned straight in blinds battle

[johnny_fish]

Villain is 25/13/2.9, quite solid. We have some history; he's on all my tables, and I made a few stupid big bluffs into flopped trips and stuff like that.. Don't know if it's very relevant though. His flop minraise smelled fishy since I saw him make similar obvious moves with monsters before.

How's my line?

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $343.50
UTG+1: $239.80
CO: $476.50
Button: $591.30
Hero: $671.40
BB: $958.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 5 6
4 folds, Hero raises to $14, BB calls.

Flop: J 7 4 ($28, 2 players)
Hero bets $20, BB raises to $46, Hero calls.

Turn: 3 ($120, 2 players)
Hero bets $80, BB calls.

River: 3 ($280, 2 players)
Hero bets $150, BB raises all-in $822.6, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $672.6 returned to BB.

Results:
Final pot: $578

[aislephive]

I'd c/r the turn instead of leading, gets more money in the pot, although leading is just fine. I like the way you played it on every street, including the fold.

[zaaaaaak]

Hero bets $150, BB raises all-in $822.6, Hero folds.

Amazing laydown.

[bdawg56kg]

Tough spot, but I think you have to call this. One of the big reasons why I don't think he's full is b/c he never raised the turn. I expect a set to raise the turn almost everytime. Just saying he's solid doesn't mean he only pushes the goods. How often have you been raising his bb?

[Ravageur]

Only thing you can put him on that beats you is 7s. Is this guy bad enough to min raise his set on the flop with a flush on board? And then just flat call the turn? Looks more to me like TPTK thinking you're bluffing at a missed draw..
Would he flat call with JJ when chances are you're stealing preflop? (If he's been paying attention)
Anyway, maybe an amazing laydown, one that probably 90% of us couldn't make.

[johnny_fish]

Tough spot, but I think you have to call this. One of the big reasons why I don't think he's full is b/c he never raised the turn. I expect a set to raise the turn almost everytime.

I expected him to raise too, that's why I tried the bet/3-bet AI line. C/r AI would be overbetting the pot.. There was also a chance he was drawing to the flush or he would check behind with Jx. I definitely would've c/r AI with 100BB though.

I can't see any hands I beat pushing the river so it was a reasonably easy fold (although I cursed that 3 of course ).

[jackvance]

Only thing you can put him on that beats you is 7s. Is this guy bad enough to min raise his set on the flop with a flush on board? And then just flat call the turn?

The answer would be "yes many people are bad enough to do this".

[dsaxton]

Check-raise the turn. He's betting here the overwhelming majority of the time, and if he's so weak that he's going to check behind, you don't lose much value anyways. You're actually probably better off representing a certain level of weakness in this case.

[sunfunbunch]

Ouch, I HATE when hands like this happen.

I like the check raise option on the turn. If he rivers his FH so be it.

As played I rather check call the river, THAN throwing a bet of 150 into the pot.
Who knows, villian might have bet 150 or less and you could have still called if you wanted instead of giving the money away.

With the paired board you knew that a FH would raise if bet into, and that's why I like the check on the river.

And this is why being out of position SUX!!

[bdawg56kg]

I can't see any hands I beat pushing the river so it was a reasonably easy fold (although I cursed that 3 of course ).

Yeah this is a good point, but this is FAR from an easy fold. He could have a slowplayed AA/KK that loves that river card. Also, what about 3xcc? Or it could just be a bluff on a missed draw. If he is a solid tricky player that knows you are capable of big laydowns, this is a possibility.

As played I rather check call the river, THAN throwing a bet of 150 into the pot.
Who knows, villian might have bet 150 or less and you could have still called if you wanted instead of giving the money away.

With the paired board you knew that a FH would raise if bet into, and that's why I like the check on the river.

The way the hand was played out, johnny has to bet the river because villian's calling range is MUCH bigger than his betting/raising range. He is likely to check a lot of one pair hands behind if we check.

[Lukie]

I'd call on the end here unless he's the type that can't put his stack in on the end without something close to the nuts. But against an aggressive opponent in a SBvBB battle, I think I call here every time. I think this is air (missed draw), Ac3c, 56, or KK/AA enough times to make this call +EV, although I'm certainly not surprised if I'm beat (especially by 77.)

I think the turn lead is fine, unless you're damn sure that he's betting the turn nearly every time, in which case I could see arguments for both.

[aislephive]

The stats of that player are pretty similar to my own, except I'm at about 20/14 though my AF is also about 2.9. I'm not raising on the river there with less than a full house, I would expect the same from a solid opponent.

[sunfunbunch]

I can't see any hands I beat pushing the river so it was a reasonably easy fold (although I cursed that 3 of course ).

The way the hand was played out, johnny has to bet the river because villian's calling range is MUCH bigger than his betting/raising range. He is likely to check a lot of one pair hands behind if we check.

I respectfully disagree. Being out of positon and unsure of where you are at, I rather go into check call mode. By betting, hero has pretty much decided that he's going to fold a huge reraise on the river. I play laggy that I have no problems letting this hand end cheaply.

If villian checks after hero checks then hero still wins a nice pot, where's the problem?
As playes, he now is put in a tough situation for a HUGE pot.

It's a blind war, why play for stacks? PASS.

[aislephive]

I can't see any hands I beat pushing the river so it was a reasonably easy fold (although I cursed that 3 of course ).

The way the hand was played out, johnny has to bet the river because villian's calling range is MUCH bigger than his betting/raising range. He is likely to check a lot of one pair hands behind if we check.

I respectfully disagree. Being out of positon and unsure of where you are at, I rather go into check call mode. By betting, hero has pretty much decided that he's going to fold a huge reraise on the river. I play laggy that I have no problems letting this hand end cheaply.

If villian checks after hero checks then hero still wins a nice pot, where's the problem?
As playes, he now is put in a tough situation for a HUGE pot.

It's a blind war, why play for stacks? PASS.

If you're going to check-call isn't that the same thing as betting and folding to a raise except we get more value out of our hand when we bet? What if Villain has top pair here, he probably checks behind on the river but will call almost any bet. The only hands that raise us on the river against a good solid tag like him are boats and a stone cold bluff, and a tiny chance they both have the same hand. I definitely think betting and folding to a raise is the best play.

[bdawg56kg]

Being out of positon and unsure of where you are at, I rather go into check call mode.

Why are we unsure of where we're at? The way the hand was played, we are ahead the vast majority of times on the river.

By betting, hero has pretty much decided that he's going to fold a huge reraise on the river.

Not true at all. Like I said (and others as well), I'd probably call his push.

I play laggy that I have no problems letting this hand end cheaply.

Playing laggy is that much more of a reason to bet the river. You want to get paid off, when the last hand your opponent puts you on is the straight. Do you think BB folds AJ to a river bet from a laggy player? Hell no!!!

If villian checks after hero checks then hero still wins a nice pot, where's the problem?
As playes, he now is put in a tough situation for a HUGE pot.

The problem is that we are giving up a lot of value by checking this river because we crush the majority of his hand range. Difficult decisions are just part of the game, and specifically in a short-handed blind battle. Difficult =! -EV.

It's a blind war, why play for stacks? PASS.

Because our hand is well disguised and we expect to be ahead most of the time to make it +EV.

[bdawg56kg]

Johnny, the more I think about it, the more 3x makes sense. Something like A3 or 35 36 with the straight/flush draw on the flop that picks up a pair on the turn. When he hits trips on the river, he figures he is good often enough to make a push +EV, so he shoves.

[Lukie]

It's a blind war, why play for stacks? PASS.

worst. logic. ever.

the fact that it's a blind war, against an agressive player that has position on us, is all the more reason to stack off here.

[Lukie]

If hero raised UTG with 45s, and villain called in MP, and the hand played out as such, we could be pretty confident that our hand is no good on the river.

Am I the only one that thinks putting the BB squarely on a boat here is too weak? I mean sure, he will have it some of the time, but still...

[aislephive]

What could Villain push with? Very unlikely that he has a 3, and if he has just a J he isn't going to raise since no worse hands call. The only possibility of a hand we beat pushing would be either a bluff, which is definitely not the case here, or maybe if he slowplayed AA or KK and made a foolish river push there, otherwise villain has a boat here almost always.

[johnnyBuz]

77 seems like the only likely hand then. Would JJ just call a PF raise or reraise?

[dsaxton]

7-7, 4-4 and J-J raise the turn almost 100% of the time.

[gabe]

the turn lead is a good play but you really need to call the river, sets dont play like this

[dalecooper]

I agree, it's very hard to put him on a hand that's ahead of you with that action. It's a scary river card, but it's really hard to figure how it could have helped him. Unless he's so damn tight that he put you on a straight on the turn and actually thought he was drawing to the boat. Flat-calling with a set there doesn't make sense since there are are two flush draws and a straight draw possible, and the river doesn't fill up anything except a set. Most decent players are definitely raising the turn.