Shortstacks.. a love/hate relationship

[givememyleg]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($24.50)
MP3 ($38.45)
CO ($24.40)
Button ($20.95)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($14.50)
givememyleg ($25.80)
UTG+1 ($22.05)
MP1 ($24.75)

Preflop: givememyleg is UTG with 9, 9.
givememyleg raises to $1, 7 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 6, 4, 5 (2 players)
BB checks, givememyleg bets $1.5, BB raises to $13.5, givememyleg.....

Worth a call here? No reads, villian just sat down 2 hands prior. Bought in for $15... I could see people doing this with a 7 definitely at this level, but he isn't so shortstacked that I have to call....


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($19.40)
MP2 ($7.90)
CO ($14.40)
Button ($31.95)
givememyleg ($30.80)
BB ($5.85)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($28.60)

Preflop: givememyleg is SB with K, A.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Button calls $0.75, givememyleg raises to $2.5, BB calls $2.25, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $1.75, Button calls $1.75.

Flop: ($10.25) 8, 9, 6 (4 players)
givememyleg checks, BB bets $3.35 (All-In), MP2 folds, Button calls $3.35, givememyleg folds.

BB is a total donk. MP2 is his brother. Button is weak/passive. Uber weak AK OOP YAY! I was hoping to take it down, or at least get heads up, preflop... but to no avail. I'm really starting to hate AK oop, is just calling with it preflop fine, esspecially oop? I would have felt better about myself if I hadn't built the pot so high to check/fold here. Should I just call pf, esspecially with the shortstack making the initial raise here?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($23.65)
MP1 ($24.25)
MP2 ($14.60)
MP3 ($15.20)
CO ($29.70)
givememyleg ($24.90)
SB ($30.45)
BB ($4.70)
UTG ($26.40)

Preflop: givememyleg is Button with A, Q.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 2 folds, givememyleg raises to $1.25, 2 folds, MP2 calls $1.

Flop: ($2.85) 8, 7, 3 (2 players)
MP2 bets $1.5, givememyleg raises to $4, MP2 calls $2.50.

Turn: ($10.85) 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, givememyleg bets $10

Fighting back against shorties! He had 9.50 behind so I just put him allin, is this spewing? Oh ya he was 37/12 over 33 hands or something like that, didn't value position, hell nvm he was just a donk.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($23.30)
CO ($33.80)
Button ($57.70)
SB ($14.35)
BB ($21.60)
givememyleg ($26.90)
UTG+1 ($7.15)
MP1 ($4.90)
MP2 ($25.80)

Preflop: givememyleg is UTG with T, T.
givememyleg raises to $1, UTG+1 raises to $7.15, 7 folds, givememyleg calls $6.15.

His 4th hand at the table Gamboooooooooooooooool, why not?

[Fnord]

Hand 1: Let's gamble!
Hand 2: Button's hand is g00t and you're out of position. Terrible spot to peel.
Hand 3: That looks like a serious flop bet, I let him have this one.
Hand 4: Standard.

[andy-akb]

Hand 1: Let's gamble!
Hand 2: Button's hand is g00t and you're out of position. Terrible spot to peel.
Hand 3: That looks like a serious flop bet, I let him have this one.
Hand 4: Standard.

Was about to post and then saw Fnord basically covered it all. Third hand I just check behind on the turn, call a river push if an ace or a queen comes up, but thats about it really.

[IowaSkinsFan]

How is hand 4 standard? it's either 50/50 or 80/20 right? i don't see why anyone would call??

[midas06]

Shortstacks... a hate/hate relationship

[Rockymv]

Shortstacks... a hate/hate relationship

Why? You can gambool with shortstacks! Don't you like to gambool?????

[Fnord]

Shortstacks... a hate/hate relationship

NOTHING BUT LOVE BABY!!!!!

[andy-akb]

How is hand 4 standard? it's either 50/50 or 80/20 right? i don't see why anyone would call??

You are going to see enough random stuff that it really wont be 80/20 all that much. Its likey going to be a coinflip where you have the advantage, but you are going to see a ton of pocketpairs here as well where you have the 80% advantage, as well as some other random hands that sway this to +$EV. I dont think this is much of a gamble really, atleast without a read, against a typical shortstacks range here you are ahead.

[givememyleg]

How is hand 4 standard? it's either 50/50 or 80/20 right? i don't see why anyone would call??

At this level, I can easily see this with a lower pp, I'd say 77+. And even if he has AJ+, I am a slight favorite and I'd take this anyday of the week vs a shorty at a ring table.

[zook]

If you have PT numbers on shortstacks in situations like hand 4, it's really helpful. There are a few regular shortstack buy-ins at Party NL50 with pre-flop numbers around 15/3, or even 10/2. They buying in for $10- $20, play a bunch of tables and push AA-QQ, maybe AK, and limp lower PPs. I've learned not to gamble with them.

[andy-akb]

If you have PT numbers on shortstacks in situations like hand 4, it's really helpful. There are a few regular shortstack buy-ins at Party NL50 with pre-flop numbers around 3/15, or even 2/10. They buying in for $10- $20, play a bunch of tables and push AA-QQ, maybe AK, and limp lower PPs. I've learned not to gamble with them.

Ive noticed that and I hate it. There are a bunch that buy in for the minimum and then just push, their VPIP/PFR is like 5/3. Those are the one you stay away from, but there are also ones that are maniacs that just buy in short.

[Warpe]

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $199.63
SHORTIEDONK: $19.90
CO: $45.90
Button: $108.45
SB: $155.50
Hero: $245.87

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 3 8
UTG folds, SHORTIEDONK raises all-in $19.9, 3 folds, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $18.9 returned to SHORTIEDONK.

Results:
Final pot: $2.5


Next hand...


Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SHORTIEDONK: $21.40
UTG+1: $45.90
CO: $108.45
Button: $155
Hero: $244.87
BB: $199.63

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with Q A
SHORTIEDONK raises all-in $21.4, 3 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 9 9 2 ($43.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $43.8)


Turn: 4 ($43.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $43.8)


River: 5 ($43.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $43.8)


Results:
Final pot: $43.8
Hero Shows Qd Ad
SHORTIEDONK Shows Ks Qh

Gamboooool!!

[dalecooper]

I got nothin' but love for shorties, but they're a slightly different breed in 6-max than full ring, I think. I know a lot of set campers and top ten hand pushers that play full ring short stacked; at 6-max they seem to be mostly idiots.

[Fnord]

I know a lot of set campers and top ten hand pushers that play full ring short stacked;

We must be playing in different games.

I'll see the rare guy playing tight showdown poker with big cards on a short-buy, but with my limit experience that sort of play doesn't phase me.

[mcatdog]

How is hand 4 standard? it's either 50/50 or 80/20 right? i don't see why anyone would call??

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG($48.83)
MP($188.10)
Hero($290.65)
Button($120.60)
SB($200.10)
BB($34.05)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T.
UTG calls 1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, BB raises to $34.05 (All-in), 1 fold, Hero calls $29.05.

Flop: ($66.60) 7, A, 2 (2 players)

Turn: ($66.60) Q (2 players)

River: ($66.60) 5 (2 players)

Final Pot: $66.60

Results in white below:
Hero shows [Tc Td]
Button shows [Qd 3d]
Outcome: Button wins $66.60.

That said, you're making a mistake by looking at two overcards as 50/50 when in fact it's better than 55/45. That makes a big difference in the long run.