Straight up

[pantherhound]

Some nice implied odds with the flop call here, does this mean the turn should be an autoshove after the miniraise? The idea being if both of them are kept in there are way too many scare cards for the river?

------HAND 89------
Game #2938024594: Hold'em NL (£0.15/£0.25) - 2006/07/08 - 18:03:32 (UK)
Table "Khaen" Seat 3 is the button.
Seat 1: Pau311243 (£43.35 in chips)
Seat 2: tyreman (£17.53 in chips)
Seat 3: Swanley (£29.70 in chips)
Seat 4: kemurray1 (£21.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Smiffy44 (£52.20 in chips)
Seat 6: meetubeat (£23.73 in chips)
Seat 7: Monster85 (£25 in chips)
Seat 8: JogOn (£37.30 in chips)
Seat 9: rexdragon (£24.58 in chips)
Seat 10: Gaz (£50.55 in chips)
kemurray1: posts small blind £0.15
Smiffy44: posts big blind £0.25
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Smiffy44 [Jh Ts]
meetubeat: folds
Monster85: folds
JogOn: folds
rexdragon: calls £0.25
Gaz: calls £0.25
JogOn leaves the table
Pau311243: calls £0.25
tyreman: folds
Swanley: folds
kemurray1: calls £0.10
Smiffy44: checks
----- FLOP ----- [Qs 2h 8s]
kemurray1: checks
Smiffy44: checks
rexdragon: checks
Gaz: bets £0.75
Pau311243: calls £0.75
kemurray1: folds
Smiffy44: calls £0.75
rexdragon: folds
----- TURN ----- [Qs 2h 8s][9c]
Smiffy44: bets £3
Gaz: calls £3
Pau311243: raises to £6
Smiffy44: raises to £51.20 and is all-in

[Greedo017]

i think its a bit of a premature shove, i'd raise to 18, the board is essentially drawless and there aren't many scare cards I don't think, except for maybe t and 9.

[Miffed22001]

i think its a bit of a premature shove, i'd raise to 18, this board is essentially drawless. i wouldn't hate a call/donk river either.

make it 20? we arent folding the river wit that bet no matter what falls.

[pantherhound]

the board is essentially drawless

11 flush outs and 10 boat/quad outs between the two opponents are all possible scare cards given the action. they're both pretty loose, if they both call a raise to 20, and half the deck saves them theres no way I can donate my stack, and both a bet/fold and check/fold would suck on the river?

[a500lbgorilla]

are you always afraid of boat outs when you make a hand?

[pantherhound]

are you always afraid of boat outs when you make a hand?

obviously not always, but there are circumstances. Almost as many outs as flush outs if you put them on a hand. Make them pay for it same way you make the flush draws pay. you know that sometimes it's obvious when the board pairs straight no g00t.

[a500lbgorilla]

well, it just seems like betting so much so quickly is you being afraid of what can come.

If you raise to like 18~21, you're commited to any turn and river anyway and they might come along.

[Greedo017]

i actually misread the flush draw, I thought the second flush card came on the turn. still no reason to fear a boat though. and, as far as outs for them, its only 8. 13 spades, two on board, you have one, they need to have 2, so they'd be drawing to 8 cards. by raising to 20, if they call, they'd have to be pretty dumb to think you were on the flush draw, so a spade river wouldn't really be too much of a scare card to them either.

my advice still stands, no need to push, just raise. i do change though that a call/bet river is ok, you probably do want to make a flush draw have to pay a bit more on the turn.