New to online poker, need help choosing the right room.

[Happy Jones]

Hey guys,
Ive been playing poker (NL holdem) for about two years but have never played online for real money. Im interested in starting up but to be honest im a bit intimitated by the number of poker rooms out there, Rakebacks, Bonus whoring and all this other stuff I keep hearing about.
If I do play Ill probably only deposit somewhere around $100 and I am definitely looking to win (Im not great but I see myself as an above average player).
Ive got all the books read all the strategies but I cant decide which room to join and how to start of with the best possible chance of success.

Firstly can someone clear up Bonus whoring and Rakebacks is this really what I think it is just poker sites basically giving away money. If so which site would be the best to join, how many should I join and how can I take the most out of these offers.

Secondly whats the best site for a newcomer to join who wants to start at penny poker and eventually make his way to $25 to $50 NL. Basically Im looking for fish as my number one priority but also a place where I can develop my skills before I start playing for more than a couple cents. I was looking at party poker and they only have $25 buy in as there min. Considering Im only going in with $100 im guessing this might not be the best place to start. What would be the best beginner site to get started with. (Just to get a feel for it).

Thirdly is it best to deposit money through neteller or directly through the online site? (I dont have a checking account, only a saving and credit card).

Any other helpful tips as to where to go and how to take advantage of other offers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve.

[Miffed22001]

$500 for 25nl on party, rb tough to find
$100 to play 2 or 5nl on paradise, no rb
$200 on a prima skin, prob $100 bonus for 1000 raked hands+ likely rb on some skins and 10nl pretty easy games.
If you have a $200~ br probably start with prima or maybe paradise.

[Nancy Sexton]

From one beginner (me with 1 year) to another:

Beware of bonuses - don't avoid them, but when you play, try to play good poker, don't get side-tracked by earning points for your bonus (like playing too long a session when you are tired).

Beware of fish - you want some, but not too many. Frankly, I've finally figured out Bodog and UltimateBet are a bit too loose for my game right now. PartyPoker generally has a decent number of fish. Paradise Poker has super low stakes, but I frankly hate how hard it is to get a hand history to see mucked cards. Full Tilt is super tight-aggressive. I wouldn't want to start there.

Since you don't really have much money (see bankroll management topics) - if you do go to PartyPoker with $100 playing 25cent blinds, you'd better be willing to lose that $100 and figure out how to start all over again.

Make sure to check out the tools for online poker. That might help you start off as a better player (Online is fast for good decisions, but tools help make up for that). Some poker sites don't support some tools - so this might help you make a decision.

And when I talk about too many fish/too loose - try not to play at tables where 6+ out of 10 people are seeing most flops, even with raises.

Don't forget the best part of online poker (and a bit of work): Table selection. There are so many tables to play at, and it's so easy to move from one to another in a ring game. Some tables will be bad news, some will be great. Don't just jump in and post a blind - wait a full round or so to see how people are playing. If one guy raises a whole lot, or there's pre-flop raises on most hands, go away.

It's hard work getting an online poker game together. Be prepared to lose some money at the beginning, so don't go in for more than you can afford to lose. Later, figure out how to win. I'm still working on that after a year (but I did manage to win my initial losses back in a year, just not getting that far ahead).

Nancy

[Stagemn]

You're basically in somewhat of the same boat as I am.

I originally started at Pokerstars playing the 0.01/0.02 ring games and a few small stakes SnGs. Didn't do too well.

But now I'm playing at HoldemPoker with a $100 deposit using Netteller working on my 100% Bonus. Lowest stakes games here are .05/.10 games and pletiful of lots of fish. Use Pokertracker and Gametime+ here and you'll make money. I've made my deposit earlier this week and I'm already up over $20 just in the ring games alone. I've already earned 3% of my bonus (in two days of play for only a couple hours a day) and figure I'll clear it in about a month or so after about 10k hands and depending on how often I can get to play.

Some other receommendations possibly.....
Paradise - Deposit $50 and earn the 25% Bonus.
UntimateBet - Deposit the $100 and earn the 20% Bonus.

[lfairban]

My recomendation is UltimateBet, but I am now working on my third card room. I started on Party Poker, but the variety of playing styles can play havoc on your bankroll, so I started playing the .05/.10 tables at UB. It did wonders for my game.

After I got consistant wins at UB, I went back to PP and did quite well. I just kept to solid tight aggressive and learned not to call big bets, unless I had the nuts or a very good hand i.e., when you have a full house, don't worry about quads. Pay off the quads and take the money from people betting trips.

[Happy Jones]

Thanks for the advice guys,
Right now im debating whether to go between
UB, Paradise, Holdem or pokerchamps so Ill read the reviews on this and make decision in a couiple days.

Thanks again.

[bode]

go to pokerstars. they have the lowest limits to start with

[lonnie]

Without a doubt, go to pokerstars. It's the best for micro stakes, trust me.

[jyms]

Here's my 2 cents. Stay away from ultimatebet for now. It's not as easy as ya think. 2 many small stacks to make it worth while. Forget the bonus for now at any room or rakebacks. At micro stakes you get very little of anything to make it worthwhile. Here's what I now know I should have done but didn't. Start at pokerstars. They have the lowest stakes, like some other rooms but offer no bonus. They have low rakes at micro tables and S&G's. There are plenty of fish but keep your head up. Some people at the tables can play. Wait to go to Party poker, because they have a very easy first deposit bonus to clear but you only get one chance at it. They have 2NL and 5NL beginner tables but only for 45 days then it's only 25NL. That's when you want to go to either ultimatebet ar another room when you can play higher stakes to make clearing bonuses faster, also the first timer bonuses are usually the highest you'll get so you don't want to waste a 50% or 100% bonus with $50. Make your plan and stick it out, I screwed myself more than once jumping from site to site and have lost alot of great bonuses. Don't make that mistake. and if you play the way the big guns on this site recommend you will be rolling in it in no time.

[Happy Jones]

Ive always heard that pokerstars had the strongest players on the net. Why would this site be the best for beginners with the exception that it offers a wide variety of micro limit games?
Also is playing in a 9 player game much different then playing in a 10 player ring game.
And if anyone knows, what are the fees for using Neteller (id be exchanging currency from canadian the USD) and is it best to go through credit card or your chequing account?

Thanks

[jyms]

The best players dont play micro. It's all beginners like us. some better than others. 9 player tends to be a little looser because of the faster blinds but is more like 10 than 6max. I don't think you can use a CC at neteller so just register your account. My canadian account gets converted by neteller to USD's no problem. The fee's are minimal, couple a bucks. $50 buck deposit for me was $56.88 total from my account. Now I don't now if there is a fee included in that or if they deposit canadian funds into the site and the site converts it or what, but it's cheap.

[Lukie]

And when I talk about too many fish/too loose - try not to play at tables where 6+ out of 10 people are seeing most flops, even with raises.

what nancy really means by this is, if you find a table like this, join it immediately so you can make loads and loads of money. Because once you start moving up, tables like this slowly but surely dissapear. It's disheartening.

[Lukie]

Ive always heard that pokerstars had the strongest players on the net. Why would this site be the best for beginners with the exception that it offers a wide variety of micro limit games?
Also is playing in a 9 player game much different then playing in a 10 player ring game.
And if anyone knows, what are the fees for using Neteller (id be exchanging currency from canadian the USD) and is it best to go through credit card or your chequing account?

Thanks

Don't worry about the strength of players at the stars micro-stakes games. You can still slaughter those games playing a straight up, tagg ABC type style.

[Happy Jones]

Alright looks like its gonna be poker stars,
Just one last question is there anything else I should do to get the most out of this site. Promotion codes, rakebacks, and other bonuses?

[Awaji E]

I've only played Paradise so far, but have no complaints. If you're only depositing $100, you definately want to be at the lowest buy-in possible, until you get your feet wet. Even if you think, "Well, I'm not aweful, I don't need to play at the .01/.02 table", give it a shot. Once you've gotten a feel for it, try moving up.

Also, getting some tracking software, like Poker Tracker, is a standard recommendation. It lets you see where you're winning and losing your money, so that you can do more of the former and less of the latter.

[Nancy Sexton]

Lukie,

I don't think beginners should have a whole lot of fish.

Just remember to go back there when you are a better player later.

It can wreak havoc on being disciplined to learn to play well.

OK, I am up in BR after 1 year, but from some other posts you can see I have problems with my game. Those loose tables can be problematic as well as profitable.

Nancy

[jyms]

This is wrong on so many levels. Starting with going back when you are a better player. Why would you go back to something when you are trying to move up limits and BR. If you can't beat the fish after visiting this site and reading everything in the beginner stickys, maybe poker is not for you. And it's not enough to be up in BR after a year, what is up? learning discipline is the first thing you learn from this site or you go broke, all us beginners know that. We are trying to move past the NooB basics once we get to FTR. Your turn Lukie.

[Lukie]

Trainer you hit the nail on the head on a lot of your points.

Nancy,

Trust me.. I don't have a problem with your game. I have never even seen you play. However, based on the posts you have made, I guess I can sort of feel that you have a lot of leaks in your game. If you want me to go through your posts and point out some things that led me to that belief, I'd be happy to.

Second, beginners should try to find the fishiest tables they can find! Let me tell you a little story. A while back, I had a friend that used to play on BOS (same network as doyle's room), where the play is notoriously bad. Well these massive donks were straight up raping my friend. He correctly observed that they would constantly call large bets all the way down with really shitty holdings, but incorrectly reasoned that the best way to exploit this would be to make even larger, more frequent bets with nothing to try to push them off, then berate them for correctly calling down.

He's long made the argument that he'd rather play against me. And it's like dude, what are you smoking. Of course I just smile and say "ok man", laughing to myself on the inside like, does this moron really think he'd run well at a table full of solid players when he can't beat some of the easiest ones on the net?

I guess my points go something like this. First, something I havn't touched on is that this isn't a video game. It's real poker being played for real money. Money is important in the real world. Staying in the green is important for a beginner, and if you have to find the worst table on the site you play at to give you the best chance to accomplish that, then you should.

Playing at a super fishy table just requires a different style. And more patience as opposed to less, in my opinion. For example, on a really fishy table, just forget about the whole concept of the continuation bet. It's just silly if you think about it.

Also, at the lower stakes, whether you like it or not (YOU SHOULD LOVE IT, TRUUUUUUUUUUUST ME), you're going to run into a lot of fish. There's a lot of fish in the 1/2 game on stars. You need to learn to exploit these guys. Where do you think all your money is going to come from in poker?? Exploiting people who call too much is far easier, and will net you far more money then exploiting people who fold too much.

I don't even know where I'm going with this..........

[T_Khan]

where you should be going with this: how about some guidelines on sure ways to actually exploit these fish, what would you do if you were sitting at a table with a limited br and a group of 8 or so players, 5/6 of which are fish lagg and maybe a couple taggs.

[biondino]

Dear T_Khan, GET ONE (1) THE REST OF FTR.

[Warpe]

.
And if anyone knows, what are the fees for using Neteller (id be exchanging currency from canadian the USD) and is it best to go through credit card or your chequing account?

I don't think you can use a CC at neteller so just register your account. My canadian account gets converted by neteller to USD's no problem. The fee's are minimal, couple a bucks. $50 buck deposit for me was $56.88 total from my account. Now I don't now if there is a fee included in that or if they deposit canadian funds into the site and the site converts it or what, but it's cheap.

Do yourselves a favour guys and open your Neteller account in US$. Otherwise you get dinged currency exchange fees every time you deposit and withdraw from a poker room, and if you move your money around to different rooms to bonus whore (which you will) then there is no sense in paying exchange fees to do it. If you already have a Neteller account in CDN$, then you have to open another one with a different e-mail address and bank account attached to it OR open one with a different e-mail address then call Neteller to switch your bank account and original e-mail address over to it and close the old one.

[jyms]

See, this is were you are going wrong. Fish aren't TAGG. Fish aren't LAGG. Fish don't know shit. They over value TPTK. They chase gut shots to the river. They play suited crap from anywhere. They don't value position, Stack sizes, pot odds, 5xbb raises, They don't see a board that has a possible straight, they don't know that a pair on board means they could be drawing dead to a flush or straight, they certainly don't know BR management and are playing scared. If I have a table of fish 5/6 or so, I expect to get beat, badly beat, on a hand, but I play my very Tagg game and keep playing the odds, get out of the way when I miss a flop, I play long run poker for stacks, every hand I'm in. If they suck out, laugh, type nh and reload because they will bet into you again, or call your all-in nut straight with MPWK. Bring on the fish.

Warpe, I just use instadeposit at the poker site and I pay no fees. I have just withdrew it into neteller from a site and it converts to canadian dollars. I have never had a fee added to my account. My last deposit was in May for $50 to Ultimatebet and my bank account was debited $56.88 so I don't know what is up with the fees. Does your US account at neteller show the balance in canadian or american?

[Lukie]

where you should be going with this: how about some guidelines on sure ways to actually exploit these fish, what would you do if you were sitting at a table with a limited br and a group of 8 or so players, 5/6 of which are fish lagg and maybe a couple taggs.

Make good hands and bet them agressively. Really. It's that simple.

[Nancy Sexton]

Lukie,

Is poker then JUST about coming out ahead money-wise?

And what level blinds have you been able to beat playing against fish and forgetting plays like continuation bets?

I am ITM at Bodog and UB, but am down at Party and FullTilt. Yeah, I can make money against the fish, but there's evidence my game needs improvement (I'm working on it).

And frankly, there's weeks on end sometimes I can't make money against the fish, my luck seems so lousy.

Nancy

[Warpe]

Warpe, I just use instadeposit at the poker site and I pay no fees. I have just withdrew it into neteller from a site and it converts to canadian dollars. I have never had a fee added to my account. My last deposit was in May for $50 to Ultimatebet and my bank account was debited $56.88 so I don't know what is up with the fees. Does your US account at neteller show the balance in canadian or american?

InstaCASH deposits are charged an 8.9% service fee, which is added to the amount requested from your bank account.

Check your exchange rate on Neteller vs. the actual exchange rate on the day you make the transaction. I think you'll find there's a significant difference. (check exchange rates here: http://www.oanda.com )

My Neteller account balance is now in US$.

[jyms]

Lukie,

Is poker then JUST about coming out ahead money-wise?

And what level blinds have you been able to beat playing against fish and forgetting plays like continuation bets?

I'll say it so you won't have to. Lukie is a poker guru of sorts to us here in the beginner circles. He is not playing poker for fun, but basically makes his living online. He can turn yours, or anyones game, into not just money making, but 50NL killing, if you play nice. There are a few really good players here that don't just play 2NL and 5NL, ( go read the winners circle in the tourney or highstakes forums) and are actualy pro players in the sense that it is their sole source of income with 5 and 6 figure bankrolls. I think if you were to search some of lukies threads you may find that his advice is DEAD on.

[Happy Jones]

Two questions:
1) Can I call neteller and have them change my account to USD. (And is that 8.9% fee only for the exchanging to a different currency, seems pretty expensive)
2) And does pokertracker cost anything? (And what information does it out put?)

Thanks

[spoonitnow]

Didn't read through all the replies, but if you search around the internet, I think you can find a signup bonus with PokerStars as a portion of an affiliate's bonus for signing you up.

[KingLizard]

Fish don't know shit. They over value TPTK. They chase gut shots to the river. They play suited crap from anywhere. They don't value position, Stack sizes, pot odds, 5xbb raises, They don't see a board that has a possible straight, they don't know that a pair on board means they could be drawing dead to a flush or straight, they certainly don't know BR management and are playing scared.

This comment is just too accurate for words. Though still learning (at 25NL), I made everyone of those mistakes in the beginning. My favorite (he says sarcastically) was NOT seeing the str8 or flush on the board. Second favorite was not understanding the implications of a pair on the board.

And one you didn't mention, where I paid a bit of money to correct, is fish (like me earlier) do not understand the value of their kicker whether it is only TP or trips (what ... my Q 3 lost to Q J with Q Q x on the flop).

Thanks to FTR I now enjoy being less of a fish ... sorta feel like I have moved up a rung or two in the food chain.

[PoKeRMaRk]

I'd try SPORTSBETTING.COM. They have a nice poker room with low limits. I'd also highly recommend NETeller as a deposit method. NETeller is a very professional company and they give you many ways to fund and withdraw funds from your account.

[jyms]

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