100NL TPTK vs flop c/r

[Halv]

Villain is kinda loose passive preflop but aggro post flop over 50 hands or so. Hero has been raising almost every hand he's played and has a near 100% cbet stat on this table.What's your play?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($109.60)
SB ($127.65)
BB ($96)
UTG ($43.45)
UTG+1 ($113.40)
MP1 ($127.95)
MP2 ($98.35)
MP3 ($37.79)
CO ($57)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , . SB posts a blind of $0.50.
5 folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $4.5, SB (poster) calls $4, 1 fold, CO calls $3.50.

Flop: ($14.50) , , (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $30, CO folds, Hero ???

[Warpe]

Based on your read, I tend toward a shove. I don't mind felting TPTK against uber-aggros. At some point you need to take a stand against these guys and this is a decent although not great spot. If he has AA/KK/set/2 pair then nh sir.

[martindcx1e]

does his aggressiveness tend to show itself as a c/r in a multiway pot? i'm scared. i fold.

[Warpe]

does his aggressiveness tend to show itself as a c/r in a multiway pot? i'm scared. i fold.

I'm of a mind that he has a draw here. You're right though, it's very read dependent,

[Halv]

I called, looking to get all in on a blank turn. He pushed, I called, he had a set of queens (!). I think it was too soon to commit a stack on a read that he was aggro, but that could be a bit results oriented.

[Warpe]

Ha. I was thinking about this hand after I posted and a little voice said "QQ" to me. Damn Poker Fairy.

In all seriousness, against a decent player this usually ends up as a grudging fold for me, but against an aggro donk I'm often prepared to felt it. I'd need to have seen him bluff/show with some marginal junk first though.

[martindcx1e]

even if villain is aggressive i think you've gotta give him credit for a hand here unless you've seen him check-raising in multiway raised pots w/o the goods.

[Halv]

I agree. At least I should find a turn fold.

[BankItDrew]

I agree. At least I should find a turn fold.

Sometimes I will call and wait to see how strong he is on the turn, but this is a big raise and would be probably getting the rest of it in by the river. I's not like he mind raise you here, he bet just more than the pot via c/r = strong.

Lastnight I called a slightly bigger than minraise when i had 88 on a T44 board. The slight min raise seemed weak to me so I followed along. I ended up taking a big stack off of his poorly misplayed AK. That being said, I should have re-raised the flop is I thought he was weak, but I followed along because his turn was a 1/3 pot bet.

Anyways, like others have said, don't be shoving TPTK unless villain has shown bluffs a couple times in this c/r situation.

[IowaSkinsFan]

This is almost the same as the other hand I argued was -EV, besides the fact that this time you were facing a c/r and not just a flat out raise.

I've come to a conclusion that you need to get Poker Tracker or some form or start taking notes so you can provide us with some reads in this situation. Because the only defenitive way to know what to do here is to get a read.

[Halv]

I've come to a conclusion that you need to get Poker Tracker or some form or start taking notes so you can provide us with some reads in this situation. Because the only defenitive way to know what to do here is to get a read.

There was a read.

Villain is kinda loose passive preflop but aggro post flop over 50 hands or so.

However I'll need a more specific read to play it the way I did. General post flop aggressiveness does not mean that he'll c/r and push blank turn with crap.

In the other hand there was no read. If the villain hasn't done much in the few hands you've seen with him then there is not really much you can do. That's why we need standard lines, right?

[IowaSkinsFan]

oh wow.... sorry dude... in that case I call the flop and check/raise the turn all in.
However I really do suggest you get poker tracker.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

If you've never seen him check raise before you don't have much of a read.

I'm not really sure what your read is anyway... over a lot of hands he's loose passive? But this session he's loose aggressive? That makes me think that the check raise is possibly a draw. But you have so little invested that i'd just fold.

[Vrax]

If you are real positional bully then he likely went Eli Elezra on you. AI on flop or flat it and raise turn.

CR'ing top pairish junk is most typical reaction of donkish players who are sick of your "iso-raise+cbet" lines.

If you were nit with button raises and c-bets then it's more like fold.

[Halv]

oh wow.... sorry dude... in that case I call the flop and check/raise the turn all in.
However I really do suggest you get poker tracker.

I have got PT + PAHUD, it's just that I like to provide whatever read I had at the time as opposed to what stats villain has after a hundred more hands when I review the session. In this case his stats would be somewhat high VPIP, very low PFR, high AF (notice how I don't remember the exact numbers from this point of the session, hence the general assessment of what I thought his tendencies were).

And kinda hard for me to c/r turn AI on the button .

If you've never seen him check raise before you don't have much of a read.

I'm not really sure what your read is anyway... over a lot of hands he's loose passive? But this session he's loose aggressive? That makes me think that the check raise is possibly a draw. But you have so little invested that i'd just fold.

The read, again, is that he's loose passive preflop but he gets aggro postflop. Basically he limps/cold calls in a lot of hands preflop and plays most of them aggressively post flop. But yeah, no specific read on what he c/r'es.

If you are real positional bully then he likely went Eli Elezra on you. AI on flop or flat it and raise turn.

CR'ing top pairish junk is most typical reaction of donkish players who are sick of your "iso-raise+cbet" lines.

If you were nit with button raises and c-bets then it's more like fold.

This influenced my decision a lot, he's very likely to think I'm full of crap (see heros self-read in the first post) up until his c/r, but after I call it he's gotta think I've got a little something.

I guess it comes down to wether or not I think he'd open push TP-hands or draws on the turn after I call the flop c/r. During play I felt he could do this with Axh (following the "post flop aggro" read), but after discussion I'm convinced that I need a more specific read.

Now this leaves an interresting question as to what the best flop play is. I still believe this type of villain is able to c/r KQ-type hands and draws big against an aggressive hero on this flop, but they'll likely check-call or just check-fold turn if they have these hands. Should we call and try to check it down/call a river bluff, call and bet the turn if checked to to avoid giving a free card to the draw, or just fold?

[IowaSkinsFan]

The stats will still be helpful in this analysis so I don't understand why you don't give them, it can't hurt.