PTBB/100 and moving up levels

[locks1018]

Hi everyone. I had a question about moving up levels and how players were going about that. I originally thought that it was all about my bankroll and then I saw posts on forums about obtaining a certain win rate. I heard on one of GP's vid that a PTBB/100 of +5 over about 25k+ hands is signs of a good player but what do you do when you build your roll faster than your hand sampling? I ony have 9k hands played at the NL50 and my roll is $2,135 I was gonna start playing NL100 at $2,500 but I can't honestly say I mastered NL50 only playing 9k hands, I figured I would probably make it to $2,500 within the next 5k hands or so but can all my inital luck just be a heater?

Also, I read a post in which the guy said he would play 20k hands (minimum) for a specific win rate before moving up? Thoughts?

Any feedback appreciated.

[benny999]

I like to take shots once I'm at around 25 buyins regardless of # of hands. I usually set a stop mark when I move up though, say -2 buyins and I move back down to rebuild, and repeat until I'm good to stay. If variance isn't ultra important to you, I would take a shot with around 20 buy ins, especially if you're running hot. I made the mistake of sticking at 50nl for too long...100nl seems even easier.

[Genitruc]

There are an unbelievable amount of bad players even at the higher limits if you can be patient about table selection. If your game is good there's no point losing money by making good investments with less potential return... MOVE UP!

[Miffed22001]

play 15k hands at each level, then if you have the br move up.
You'll soon find if you cant play at higher stakes.

bb/100 is a pretty useless indicator at small stakes when youre only hanging around for the bare minimum of hands there anyway.

[Iwind]

The skill level among the players doesn't really change that much, so as long as you are beating the game your at, have the bankroll for the next stake, and don't get scared of the thought of loosing twice as much in a hand, move up. I also find it a good idea to increase the number of buyins needed to move to next stake the higher you get. I did this:

$500 - $2,000: 50NL
$2,000 - $5,000: 100NL
$5,000 - $12,000: 200NL
$12,000 - $20,000: 400NL
$20,000 - $35,000: 600NL

Took about 4 months, and now I play $1,000 - $2,000 NL. No real big downswings, some small ones here and there, but it's not too hard as long as you play solid and don't move up too early.

[elipsesjeff]

play 15k hands at each level, then if you have the br move up.
You'll soon find if you cant play at higher stakes.

If only it was this easy!

Maybe the better question is, how long do you stay at the level and get pwned until you drop back down to a level that you can kill?

[NLHE lahooozaher]

play 15k hands at each level, then if you have the br move up.
You'll soon find if you cant play at higher stakes.

If only it was this easy!

Maybe the better question is, how long do you stay at the level and get pwned until you drop back down to a level that you can kill?

I think this can answer that...from fimbul winter @ 2p2. I found it pretty useful.

"first off you should never view it as a quantum leap kinda thing. just take little shots when you feel comfortable, have the money and are good enough. here's a hand waving yardstick:

try 50NL when:

- you're confident in your preflop game
- you understand position
- you have a good idea of their hand by the river
- you have an ok feel when to continuation bet
- you have 500 or more

100NL when:

- you're confident playing draws
- you can spot good semibluff opportunities
- you can lay down AA/KK unimproved
- you're attacking the blinds in easy steal situations
- you have 1200+

200NL when:

- you're ok betting your stack on a draw
- a PFR from you doesnt always mean AA-JJ and AQs+
- you're starting to play one hand while holding another
- you have more than one mode
- you have 3000 or more

400NL when:

- you can ID profitable preflop steals
- you know how to pick between b3b and c/r
- position factors heavily into your play
- you're good at manipulating pot size
- you have 6000+

1K NL when

- your lines don't define your hand
- you're good at playing and winning lots of small pots
- your oop opponent must hold a strong hand to win a pot from you
- you understand the real math of the game at least at a basal level
- you have 20000+"

[IowaSkinsFan]

play 15k hands at each level, then if you have the br move up.
You'll soon find if you cant play at higher stakes.

If only it was this easy!

Maybe the better question is, how long do you stay at the level and get pwned until you drop back down to a level that you can kill?

I think this can answer that...from fimbul winter @ 2p2. I found it pretty useful.

"first off you should never view it as a quantum leap kinda thing. just take little shots when you feel comfortable, have the money and are good enough. here's a hand waving yardstick:

try 50NL when:

- you're confident in your preflop game
- you understand position
- you have a good idea of their hand by the river
- you have an ok feel when to continuation bet
- you have 500 or more

100NL when:

- you're confident playing draws
- you can spot good semibluff opportunities
- you can lay down AA/KK unimproved
- you're attacking the blinds in easy steal situations
- you have 1200+

200NL when:

- you're ok betting your stack on a draw
- a PFR from you doesnt always mean AA-JJ and AQs+
- you're starting to play one hand while holding another
- you have more than one mode
- you have 3000 or more

400NL when:

- you can ID profitable preflop steals
- you know how to pick between b3b and c/r
- position factors heavily into your play
- you're good at manipulating pot size
- you have 6000+

1K NL when

- your lines don't define your hand
- you're good at playing and winning lots of small pots
- your oop opponent must hold a strong hand to win a pot from you
- you understand the real math of the game at least at a basal level
- you have 20000+"

100NL up your BR numbers are wrong. for 50 and 100NL, have 1000 and 2000-2500 respectively. for 200NL, though I'm not positive, needs at least 6000+. For 400NL, 15000+, 600NL I'd have 30000+, and 1000NL I'd say like 50000+

[andy-akb]

Iowa, there are no "right and wrong" numbers for BR requirements, but I do understand what you are saying. Bankrolls are player dependent, if you are comfortable playing with a shorter bankroll then its fine as long as you know when to move back down. I personally will stick to 20 buyins until 600nl which Im shooting for a 20k roll and 1knl would be ~50k.

Fimbulwinter made that post a few years ago and for a player of his caliber with the state of the games at that time Im sure those requirements were fine. Look at the content of what he says, not the bankroll amount.

[Genitruc]

btw if memory serves me well fimbul's suggestions are for lower variance full ring

[Fnord]

100 and 200 are pretty soft. At each step towards 200NL the multi-tablers get a little more aggro, the fish tend to bet and there are more tables you probably shouldn't bother to play.