raising SC at mid stacked loose table

[benny999]

100nl 6 max on bodog. assume no good reads except that ppl seem loose-passive, and I have been solid/tag.

Questions:

--What do you think of pre flop?
--Do you always bet this flop, and why/why not?
--Is my turn push -ev? I was thinking pair/draw, and TPGK will call.


SB - $58
UTG - $72
I have $118 on the button with 9 8

Pre Flop...
UTG limps, 2 folds, I raise to $5, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop ($16, 3way) 4 9 J

2 checks, I check

Turn 4 9 J 8

SB leads $13, UTG folds, I shove (a $40 raise)

[Tom42]

Preflop, I wouldn't make a habbit of doing this on a loose passive tables with a lot of shortstacks. But punishing limper now and then with a hand like this is fine I guess.

Flop, I really don't know. I don't see worse hands calling, but you may have the best hand and any over on the turn is a bad card for you.

Turn, I like your push against a shortstack. Usually they call with TP+, a draw,... given the flop action.

[Robert]

benny,

Preflop is standard, unless UTG is a huge calling station postflop.
On the flop arguments can be made for both betting and checking behind. The flop is very drawless and you have a little showdown value, an argument for checking behind. On the other hand, I would much rather like a check in a HU pot than in a multiway pot - theres a bigger need to defend your hand against any (overcard) draws when the pot is multiway. I dont hate the flop check though, but I would prefer to bet it here.
Turn is standard.

[Miffed22001]

fwiw, i limp a lot here.
A lot of half stacks play horribly post-flop becuase they dont get value from monsters, make it obvious they flopped hard, or just plainly suck at post flop play and call down a whole lot with crap.
You dont need to raise to much here IMO becuase if you hit you are probably getting paid anyway.

[benny999]

The flop is very drawless and you have a little showdown value, an argument for checking behind. On the other hand, I would much rather like a check in a HU pot than in a multiway pot - theres a bigger need to defend your hand against any (overcard) draws when the pot is multiway. I dont hate the flop check though, but I would prefer to bet it here.

I like that logic...thanks.

Preflop, I wouldn't make a habbit of doing this on a loose passive tables with a lot of shortstacks. But punishing limper now and then with a hand like this is fine I guess.

and

fwiw, i limp a lot here.
A lot of half stacks play horribly post-flop becuase they dont get value from monsters, make it obvious they flopped hard, or just plainly suck at post flop play and call down a whole lot with crap.
You dont need to raise to much here IMO becuase if you hit you are probably getting paid anyway.

This is an interesting point, and this and another hand yesterday made me really think about it, because so far I almost never limp the button...but this makes sense, to make an exception at this sort of table.
I mean you're right, they aren't folding pre flop and continuations enough, but will take one pair pretty deep if I make a hand.
It also keeps the pot more manageable for shorter stack sizes, like on this hand, if it got to the turn, he would have 3bet with his JJ set and I would have an easy fold. But now with the pot/stack ratio, and my flop check, I am pretty much committed.