KK against turn c/r on scary board and many children in pot

[wufwugy]

this is from memory so numbers and such may not be completely accurate.

Bodog fullring 50$ max buy in, relatively new to table.

hero has KK and is UTG with 80 blind stack after having just doubled up, villian is BB and is on a 400 blind stack (with 100 blinds as max buy in, villian is either a good player or on a hot deck or a little of both. considering that it's Bodog 50$.....).

hero raises 4 blinds, MP calls, villian calls.

flop is T 8 7

villian checks, hero fires 3/4 of the pot, MP calls, villian calls

turn is 8

vilian checks, hero fires 2/3 of the pot, MP folds, villian takes a little time then raises the amount hero bet.

hero's stack is approximately half the pot and twice what he needs to call to see the river.

what does hero do?

[yorib]

On Bodog, big stacks can be horrid players on a tear just as easy as solid players. I'd put him on something like A9/T9 or possibly Axs. I think calling and raising are both options. (Raising because there are so many scare cards on river). It really looks like he's making a move, but has outs. I'd push.

[wufwugy]

On Bodog, big stacks can be horrid players on a tear just as easy as solid players. I'd put him on something like A9/T9 or possibly Axs. I think calling and raising are both options. (Raising because there are so many scare cards on river). It really looks like he's making a move, but has outs. I'd push.

i had a strong suspicion that he was bluffing, but i am uncomfortable playing deep (80bb aint even that deep) with one pair in a big pot. i play much, much better short, and because of this, my strategy is to buy in for 40bb and leave when at 60bb and the blinds come around again.

because of my discomfort i went against my initial instinct to push and folded. he showed me 73 of hearts.

oftentimes, i have a problem with putting my opps on different logic than they espouse. i convinced myself that he realized that bluffing in that situation at Bodog 50$ is a bad move since my line and stack size almost always means you cant get me off the hand.

[martindcx1e]

how about buy in full and get better?

[wufwugy]

how about buy in full and get better?

possibly eventually.

there are a handful of very good advantages to being short, no matter the skill level of you or your opponents.

[martindcx1e]

there are also very nice advantages to being a full stack. doesn't it just kill you when you are forced to fold your small pp preflop cuz someone has raised too much to give you correct odds to set-hunt? or when you get something like a triple-up opportunity, and you could've made 200bb's but instead only made like 120?

[wufwugy]

there are also very nice advantages to being a full stack. doesn't it just kill you when you are forced to fold your small pp preflop cuz someone has raised too much to give you correct odds to set-hunt? or when you get something like a triple-up opportunity, and you could've made 200bb's but instead only made like 120?

sure. pendulum swings the other way, however. losing a large buy in is far more psychologically disrupting than losing a small one. im talking about certain structural advantages that force beneficial odds and such.

take this hand for example:

you're on a short stack, you have AK of diamonds in MP, you raise, get a few callers.

flop is all unders, no pair, two diamonds. a blind donks into you. your stack is about 3/4 the pot, you go all in.

if you're behind and drawing to a flush then you've ensured that you get to see two cards, thus providing much better odds. if you're deep then you cant go all in. you can just play the street and plan for the next. say the turn isn't a diamond, and the blind player bets big into youthen you may not be getting the odds to see the river. you now fold due to insufficient odds and assessment of opps' hand strength and a diamond comes on the river, or a K or A and a pair of overplayed tens takes down the pot.

also, bad players play badly all the time, but against shorties, they play even worse. i've had many times where i buy in for 40 bb, lose a few hands, get knocked down to 10bb, go all in with something like AK or JJ, and get called by a handful of guys with A7s, JT, 75, etc. if i win i quadruple up in one hand. make the play deep and you'll get called by much better hands.