Too passive or just right?

[dev]

Standard low-limit online table, everyone is trying to play well, but no one is really doing it. I'd been playing a standard TAGG game. Only read is that RICAN has been giving me a bit of respect, but I hadn't really been at the table that long.

These converters suck, so here's the hand as AP intended it:

Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - BUCSNORT ($39.35 in chips)
Seat 4 - THUNDERNUT ($22.15 in chips)
Seat 5 - COWB0YMIKE ($20.20 in chips)
Seat 6 - RICAN250 ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - EVISCERATION ($45.65 in chips)
Seat 2 - TWEETY1947 ($23.20 in chips)
THUNDERNUT - Posts small blind $0.25
COWB0YMIKE - Posts big blind $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to COWB0YMIKE [10s 7h]
RICAN250 - Calls $0.50
EVISCERATION - Folds
TWEETY1947 - Folds
BUCSNORT - Folds
THUNDERNUT - Calls $0.25
COWB0YMIKE - Checks
*** FLOP *** [7s 5h 10d]
THUNDERNUT - Bets $1.50
COWB0YMIKE - Calls $1.50
RICAN250 - Calls $1.50
*** TURN *** [7s 5h 10d] [3h]
THUNDERNUT - Bets $2.50
COWB0YMIKE - Calls $2.50
RICAN250 - Calls $2.50
*** RIVER *** [7s 5h 10d 3h] [5d]
THUNDERNUT - Bets $2.50
COWB0YMIKE - Calls $2.50
RICAN250 - Calls $2.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
THUNDERNUT - Shows [Kh 10c] (Two Pair, tens and fives)
COWB0YMIKE - Shows [10s 7h] (Two Pair, tens and sevens)
RICAN250 - Mucks
COWB0YMIKE Collects $19.95 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($21) | Rake ($1.05)
Board [7s 5h 10d 3h 5d]
Seat 4: THUNDERNUT (small blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, tens and fives [Kh 10c - B:10d,P:10c,B:5h,B:5d,P:Kh]
Seat 5: COWB0YMIKE (big blind) won Total ($19.95) HI$19.95) with Two Pair, tens and sevens [10s 7h - P:10s,B:10d,B:7s,P:7h,B:5h]
Seat 6: RICAN250 HI: [Mucked] [Js 10h]


I kinda figured they were both pretty weak, so I wanted to pull the guy in behind me and let the guy in front of me keep the lead. I also figured there was a lot that could hurt my hand, so I didn't mind keeping it small so I could get away. What do you think?

[nutsinho]

raise flop raise turn

[zenbitz]

I think it's OK to play like this once in a while. I think if the river wasn't a 5, I would probably raise. Raising either (or both) flop and turn is standard, although you will often blow people off their TPMehK.

[dev]

You know, I'm usually extremely agro... so while I was playing this hand I felt kinda dirty.

Can anyone make a serious argument for playing it a different way? Readless in a low-limit NL cash game I couldn't see playing it differently, even though I can't think of one other time I've played top two like this.

[jackvance]

I think it's ok to play it like this on occassion, but not as a standard play to always handle this situation. Standard you'd have to raise it on the flop. Consider that with this line you get value from 1p hands that think they're good, but you're paying off more than you won now if either of them improved on you (or had you beat on the flop).

[dev]

You know, I'm not a big fan of 'standard lines'. How about THIS hand?

[jackvance]

I'm not sure what you mean. A standard line refers to one that is best, ie typically most +EV. You don't like that?..

By playing it passively, you get more value from weaker hands (who you blow off of their hand with a raise), but there is a big risk someone will draw out on you. It's mighty complex to do an EV calculation on this but in general raising this is better imo.

[Seabass]

Raise either the flop or the turn, depending on you read on the SB. If your lacking a read on either of them, raise the flop.

Even more so if you have a image of being aggro.

[dsmrolla06]

I may smooth call the flop depending on the players in the hand, but im definately reraising that turn. Theres no sense in giving that many free cards when theres already a decent pot built up with lots of hands that can draw out on you.

[swiggidy]

This is not a spot for "extracting value". There isn't any money in the pot!!!. Does TPGK fold to a raise, no. Does an overpair fold to a raise, no. So raise!!! Who cares if you win $2 off of 88-99, you can win way more off of TP hands.

By the turn with potential flush draw and 2 opponents, not raising is criminal. You kept the pot small on the flop so you could get away if a scary card came. A scary card didn't come so what are you worried about now?

Assume both villains have TP or a pp. If they each have 4-5 outs to improve, they each have 16-20% chance to improve, which means together they have 32-40% chance, which means you only have 60-68% equity in the pot. Your line is fine occasionally HU but multi-way is blows.

Don't include results in your post. As played you allowed your opponents to only make small mistakes.

lol @ imtoogoodforstandardlineaments

[Beck]

not only is there a flsh draw, there is a straight draw on the flop. one of these guys could have 89. and I like nothing more then haveing a straight draw with 2 other players in a pot calling bets.
I say raise flop, raise turn. He will defnintely call your raise on the flop.