Two Pairs from tonight.. facing aggression

[griffey24]

Here are a few hands from tonight.

I encountered more resistance than usual with several two pair hands!

Any thoughts on how these hands were played? or if I should call in any of these spots?


Hand 1:

-haven't played with villain much, so no real reads

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $122.75
CO: $73.60
Button: $342.75
Hero: $99
BB: $175.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: ($9, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, Hero calls.

Turn: ($21, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($21, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $10, Hero raises to $24, UTG raises all-in $112.75, Hero??


Hand2:

-villain is 25/1.4/1.3 and a losing player over 500 hands
-is a push from a passive villain like this always a fold of two pair?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $169.75
CO: $109.04
Button: $75.75
SB: $15
Hero: $101.75

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with
2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.25, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: ($9.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $8.75, Button raises all-in $71.5, Hero ??


Hand 3:

-another hand from early in the session, and never seen this villain before
-in retrospect.. i have an impression of villain, but at the time of the hand I had no reads

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.5/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $98.50
CO: $193.06
Button: $182.72
Hero: $77.50
BB: $129.17

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with
2 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: ($3, 3 players)
BB checks, Button checks, Hero bets $2.5, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: ($10.5, 3 players)
BB checks, Button bets $5, Hero calls, BB folds.

River: ($20.5, 2 players)
Button bets $34, Hero ??

[IowaSkinsFan]

As my good friend says "I HVAE THE TWO PAIRS I CANNOT FOLD"

[Alexos]

1- I'm not sure why you check/raise river. Why not just bet it outright?

As for whether or not to call these, I'm having a hard time to figure out which is the easiest to call/fold. Maybe thats a better question.

[Hornsta9]

Hand 1: I think I fold this. I can't see him bluffing like this very often. I am putting him on QQ/JJ/AT. I suppose its possible he has KQ.

Why did you not bet out the flop or turn with TP?

Hand 2: I'm not sure about this one. Villain is passive pre & post flop but that is a MASSIVE overbet! Could he have AA-JJ here? I think I call and cry when he flips 44!

Hand 3: (Bit confused by the HH. Your SB but acting after the Button?) assuming you acted first I would have c/r turn and 1/2 PSB river. As played I call. Can't see what he has that beats you the way its played. I suppose this could be a set but why would he overbet the pot? A set would have bet $10-$15.

[griffey24]

Hand 1: I think I fold this. I can't see him bluffing like this very often. I am putting him on QQ/JJ/AT. I suppose its possible he has KQ.

Why did you not bet out the flop or turn with TP?

Hand 3: (Bit confused by the HH. Your SB but acting after the Button?) assuming you acted first I would have c/r turn and 1/2 PSB river. As played I call. Can't see what he has that beats you the way its played. I suppose this could be a set but why would he overbet the pot? A set would have bet $10-$15.

Hand 1 - Yah I could have lead out the turn. But he was the aggressor, so I was checking to the aggressor. I didn't really want to get raised off my hand in this spot.

The river, I checked to him since he checked through the turn. At this point, I figured he had nothing (so I checked, to induce a bet) or figured he might have caught AK (so my check raise was a value raise against AK). I didn't expect to get pushed after.

Hand 3 - Yah I'm looking at the hh and it IS screwed up.. not sure why. In any case, I had position on villain on the flop, he check called. Turn, river he lead into me.

[ihategnomes]

Hand 1:

Raise or fold preflop, bet the flop and turn. The turn was bad. This is not a spot where you are worried about being raised off your hand. If you are raised your hand isnt any good.

Hand 2:

I like a turn fold, pot is small and villian is weak passive.

Hand 3:

How does the button act after the BB?

[Hornsta9]

Hand 1 - Yah I could have lead out the turn. But he was the aggressor, so I was checking to the aggressor. I didn't really want to get raised off my hand in this spot.

This makes sense on the flop and I think I may have done the same if I felt Villain would C-bet. I think a bet on the turn is the best play as he is unlikely to want to continue on a draw and if he raises you you can dump it fairly easily.

The river, I checked to him since he checked through the turn. At this point, I figured he had nothing (so I checked, to induce a bet) or figured he might have caught AK (so my check raise was a value raise against AK). I didn't expect to get pushed after.

I agree with your thought process here and think your right the way it panned out on the river. After he pushes I think I done with the hand though. I play $50NL and I know players will play AK this way sometimes but do they at $100NL? I still think I fold, I just think its more likely your up against QQ/JJ/AT most times here. WOuld be interested to see the result of this one.

Hand 3 - Yah I'm looking at the hh and it IS screwed up.. not sure why. In any case, I had position on villain on the flop, he check called. Turn, river he lead into me.

In that case I would be raiseing the turn here to $15 and if he pushes I think I would have folded without reads. As played I still think I call. I just can't see a set overbetting the pot like this on the river and I really doubt a straight would play that way on the river. Well I wouldn't have played a set/straight that way, maybe I am missing value????

[Hornsta9]

Hand 1:

Raise or fold preflop,

Maybe things are different at $50NL or I'm to passive but I certainly would not be RR in SB with KQo at $100NL against Villain with no reads.

Is rerasing OOP with KQo the best play here?

[ihategnomes]

I believe it is 10 times better than calling an UTG raise from the SB with KQo. Without a read I'd prefer a fold over a raise or call.

[zook]

I believe it is 10 times better than calling an UTG raise from the SB with KQo. Without a read I'd prefer a fold over a raise or call.

QFT.

1. I lead or c/r the flop. As played lead turn, lead river. As played, river decision is tough... AT/AK are the hands that make sense here. Blech, I probably call, but I'm a station.

2. Looks like a set. Not a big enough pot to look him up.

3. In my experience, these overbets are usually monsters looking to make up for lost value on other streets. I put him on JT, maybe a set. I think I find a fold here too, without a read.

[Hornsta9]

I believe it is 10 times better than calling an UTG raise from the SB with KQo. Without a read I'd prefer a fold over a raise or call.

Good point!

[griffey24]

Hand 1:

Raise or fold preflop, bet the flop and turn. The turn was bad. This is not a spot where you are worried about being raised off your hand. If you are raised your hand isnt any good.

Hand 2:

I like a turn fold, pot is small and villian is weak passive.

Hand 3:

How does the button act after the BB?

I agree with this assessment of hand 1. I really probably should have folded PF. If this was a button raiser, I might re-raise with KQ in this spot sometimes.

Hand 2-turn fold, yah I think thats reasonable. Don't go broke in an unraised pot!

Hand 3- yah the HH is screwed up for some reason.

Hand 2 was actually the one that confused me the most.. cause I really couldn't see what villain would have here.

Hand 3 turn lead felt like J10 to me.. and Hand 1.. also wasn't really sure what he could have to play so passively till the river , on sucha drawy board.

[griffey24]

For those results oriented:

Hand 1: Hero calls and villain shows A10 for the straight

Hand 2: Hero calls and villain shows 79 for the straight

Hand 3: Hero calls and villain shows J10 for the straight (this one I knew... and really should have folded)

Gotta love straights!

[zook]

I read hands pretty goot.

[zenbitz]

The last hand is the one that looks like it could be something other than a straight, or at least often enough to make a call OK.

at least you didn't raise.

[Miffed22001]

1. Fold preflop
2. Why bet the flop? your hand is lukewarm, oop and doesnt even really like beng called down.

[griffey24]

1. Fold preflop
2. Why bet the flop? your hand is lukewarm, oop and doesnt even really like beng called down.

I agree with 1.

But really? you don't bet the flop on hand 2? I bet the flop because its a limped pot, its checked to me with only one person left to act, and I'm likely to be ahead right now and will often take it down.

I would agree if there were several people left to act behind me (I would definitely check in that case), but in this case SB has checked and shown weakness, so I'm mostly only worried about the button.

[ihategnomes]

But really? you don't bet the flop on hand 2?

Reverse implied odds would be one.

[griffey24]

But really? you don't bet the flop on hand 2?

Reverse implied odds would be one.

Sure I agree that reverse implied odds exist with some hands. But, I'm not about to get stacked with only top pair 6 kicker if called. The turn is being checked if I don't improve (and in this case I did improve).

I'm assuming we're not betting here because of our poor kicker. So what kicker do we need here to make a bet the majority of the time? (in a limped pot)

[ihategnomes]

I'm assuming we're not betting here because of our poor kicker.

and we have poor position. Im not entirely convienced that betting or checking is better. Without an idea of the table dynamics and our image, its hard to really say whats better.

[Miffed22001]

But really? you don't bet the flop on hand 2?

Reverse implied odds would be one.

Sure I agree that reverse implied odds exist with some hands. But, I'm not about to get stacked with only top pair 6 kicker if called. The turn is being checked if I don't improve (and in this case I did improve).

I'm assuming we're not betting here because of our poor kicker. So what kicker do we need here to make a bet the majority of the time? (in a limped pot)

oop
reverse implied odds, ie our hand is sh!t
we arent drawing to anything useful.
Opp who limped is only going to call our bet if he has us beat, mostly. If hes any good hell just call and probably know you cant double barrel tp/nk here and if you did you may be spewing into his range.
lots of sb hands that beat you may c/c this flop
board is draw heavy, loads of cards can come that are scary where opp can raise you out.

basically your hand is lukewarm if not outright junk especially oop versus any two cards opp would consider playing preflop.

[jackvance]

All of these lines look to me like how most players play monsters, I fold all of these (unless you often see these lines as being bluffs or something, which is highly doubtful). The only thing I'd expect to beat in these instances is one of those badly slowplayed high pocket pairs.

In the T6o hand I usually bet the flop too, but weaker, more like half pot. Might be stupid, weak bet for a weak hand, but I do it for pot control mostly. If I don't bet, only way I'm winning this hand is if it gets checked down through the river. Usually I can take it on the flop. If I get callers, I'll fold to further aggression, and win a showdown vs a lower pair or a draw that never got there (ie, only thing I beat are hands that are looking to showdown cheap too).