question on a river play

[benny999]

what is the best river play, assuming villain's a thinking tag player (ie capable of thin value bets, 3 barell bluffs, and folding), and he reads me for being sorta tricky/aggro but mostly tag?

this from a hand where I actually was the CO, and BB just called (typed, "good board to 3 barell all I could have is PP or flush draw"). I thought he'd have been better off check-raising me, since I might fold better hands, but not sure.


Ultimate Bet
Pot Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1./$2.
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $228
CO: $221.20
Button: $38.20
SB: $395.65
Hero: $261.45

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 8 8
UTG folds, CO raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 3 3 2 ($15, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $11, Hero calls.

Turn: Q ($37, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $24, Hero calls.

River: 4 ($85, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $55, Hero...calls, folds, or pushes for 165 more

[IowaSkinsFan]

He should find a fold somewhere here.

[griffey24]

Fold the turn, or lead the turn for $17 or so, and fold to a raise.

I think if you lead the turn, and villain calls, then you need to check fold the river. .

I agree with Iowa.. find a fold somewhere.

[benny999]

this hand made me think since it seems like a good line to get max value with a boat or quads from my/CO's range on the turn and river (mostly Qx, TT+ and bluffs), but I never really thought to use it yet.
it seems like most tags I play don't ever take this line with a big hand or especially try to turn a likely worse one into a bluff.

[bdawg56kg]

I prob fold turn. Making these kinds of calldowns oop sucks against most players. As played, just fold river. He is not bluffing enough to justify calling, and check-raising will rarely fold out any better hands, since there are very few big hands (and lots of draws) that you can have here. On that note, that is why check-raising the river here is a great play with a big hand.

[Ash256]

What about pushing? The call PF, then the check-calls are a good monster line.

I'm not suggesting you push, I just want to see what the discussion is on it.

[benny999]

I think bdawg's right, with flush draws out, a river check raise is better with an actual big hand (at least I'd prob look it up light...)

reminds me of a hand genitruc posted a while back - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ght=stack+donk,
a turn c/r followed by river push like that might be scarier than river check raise.

so not a good move to do a ton as a bluff, but think I'll try this out, probably with a hand first though..

[Harry]

I fold river. Sometimes I fold turn.

[benny999]

well good to hear that good tags here prob fold somewhere...I actually showed AK there.
I was like 90%+ sure he had 22-99 after the turn check-call, maybe Qxs, but guess he thought one level above. next time I'll have it!