Getting Government Clearance

[a500lbgorilla]

Anyone have any experience with this?

I was just offered an internship to BIT Systems to help with satelite dynamics and controls pending gov't clearance. I was given an 8 page document where I am to detail my entire life. They have a section for everything including drug use. At the end, i get a polygraph test im told and if i fail that... im done. And Ill probably need gov't clearance to work at any job in my field most likely.

I wanna know if they care that i've done drugs or just if im honest about it.

If it helps, i know im not addicted to pot or alcohol since i've gone a semester without drinking alcohol for my diet and pot just isnt addicting. Im much more addicted to food than any drug. I've tried coke and shrooms and have had the intention of trying acid.

I'm afraid this won't look good on paper and that i might overly spin it during the polygraph and fail.

[WildBobAA]

If you're that worried about it, it seems like you'd fail the polygraph and lying about drug use and having them find out would be much worse than just telling them IMO.

[swiggidy]

I wonder the same, I'll be in a similar situation whenever I get a job offer.

The only people I know who have gotten clearances don't have a drug history so it wasn't an issue.

[seoul_child1]

Yes, gov't clearance paperwork is No joke, they will check up on eveything you list or write. If they require a passing polygraph test for this job I highly suggest you do not lie about the drug question, just don't need to get all specific just say, things you've tried when you were younger. They can instantly know when you are lying. Good Luck.

[Warpe]

Don't lie, and don't use anything cause you might have to take a drug test down the road.

[gabe]

tell truth but make it sound harmless

[chardrian]

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

[euphoricism]

polygraphs are a joke, and as chardrian will tell you, not admissable in court. Theyre used by police as a method to scare you into confessing.

Tell them about the pot, tell them its been two years. Thats *normally* the cutoff. Anything harder is almost always immediate disqual. Dont mention the coke/shrooms. They wont know if you dont tell them.

[zook]

Personally I would lie about the coke and shrooms and play down how much pot you've smoked (say like five times or something). Stick to your story on the polygraph. Those things are notoriously unreliable, and I've heard you can fail parts of it and still get clearance. I think as long as you don't fail parts about whether you're loyal to your country, a terrorist, have committed a violent crime, etc. you'll be all right.

[Warpe]

Tell them about the pot, tell them its been two years. Thats *normally* the cutoff. Anything harder is almost always immediate disqual. Dont mention the coke/shrooms. They wont know if you dont tell them.

Ya, I'd agree with this. Hard stuff like coke is a huge red flag.

[zook]

and have had the intention of trying acid.

But def tell them this.

[bode]

just smoke a bowl before you go, it will calm your nerves.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

That's why we're telling 'rilla he's better off just being honest.

[Sprayed]

This is what I do for a living. I have a clearance (TS/SCI). I have taken a full scope poly as well and passed on the first try. I have done drugs and I admitted to it in my clearance paperwork and during my poly. It's no big deal as long as it hasn't been recent. They just want you to tell the truth. I can't believe that you would be done if you didn't pass the poly the first time. I know people that have had to take it several times (like over 5).

Which agency is this through? If you need to take a poly I would say CIA, NSA, and NRO. I process clearances for a living and know how each agency works and what they are looking for. Here is the adjudication requirements for intel agencies:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/dcid6-4/dcid6-4.pdf

If this is a DOD clearance then refer to this manual (NISPOM):

http://www.dss.mil/files/pdf/nispom2006-5220.pdf

I could talk about the different background investigations but it would probably confuse you. If you read the NISPOM you will have a pretty good understanding. Also, without knowing which type (DOD or Intel), I don't want to tell you one thing and be incorrect. If you want specific info, just PM me or post more questions.

[drmcboy]

I had a cousin who wanted to be in the FBI as like a chemical foresnic person or something, admitted to smoking pot in the past, had never done anything else, and she did not get in.

[givememyleg]

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

That's why we're telling 'rilla he's better off just being honest.

rofl

[Sprayed]

I had a cousin who wanted to be in the FBI as like a chemical foresnic person or something, admitted to smoking pot in the past, had never done anything else, and she did not get in.

It depends upon the agency. DEA and FBI are two that frown on drug history. DEA won't even consider you. The FBI may allow you be cleared through them depending upon what you will be doing for them and the extent of access that you will have.

[TripsChaos]

I have a friend who works for a government accounting firm out of northern virginia.

When he was taking his 5-hour long polygraph test, he admitted that he had smoked marijuana, and they asked him if he has ever smoked more then either 17 or 21 (can't remember which) individual times. He said no, passed the test, and afterwards asked why the number of times mattered. His instructor said that the government, through testing, determined that any drug act done at least 17 (or 21) times is considered a habit, and will result being an unacceptable candidate for any government position.

[a500lbgorilla]

This is what I do for a living. I have a clearance (TS/SCI). I have taken a full scope poly as well and passed on the first try. I have done drugs and I admitted to it in my clearance paperwork and during my poly. It's no big deal as long as it hasn't been recent. They just want you to tell the truth. I can't believe that you would be done if you didn't pass the poly the first time. I know people that have had to take it several times (like over 5).

Which agency is this through? If you need to take a poly I would say CIA, NSA, and NRO. I process clearances for a living and know how each agency works and what they are looking for. Here is the adjudication requirements for intel agencies:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/dcid6-4/dcid6-4.pdf

If this is a DOD clearance then refer to this manual (NISPOM):

http://www.dss.mil/files/pdf/nispom2006-5220.pdf

I could talk about the different background investigations but it would probably confuse you. If you read the NISPOM you will have a pretty good understanding. Also, without knowing which type (DOD or Intel), I don't want to tell you one thing and be incorrect. If you want specific info, just PM me or post more questions.

The Project I will be working on is for the CIA.

[a500lbgorilla]

Well, i emailed Kim the Human Resources lady I met at the interview and said that I've done pot as short as half a week ago and she said If i can buck the habbit now, by the time I get polygraphed it shouldnt be a big deal.

Im still worried though. If I don't get this gov't clearence I won't be able to make 100k+ a year 5 yrs out of graduation.

[a500lbgorilla]

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

I'll think 2 levels to far and fail the polygraph when it asks for my place of birth. (Which I actually have a really hard time remembering.)

[Warpe]

The Project I will be working on is for the CIA.

We hope they never read FTR, obv.

[a500lbgorilla]

Hmmm, good point.

[Warpe]

Hmmm, good point.

Use your mod powers and dump/move the thread.

[donkbee]

move it somewhere good!

[Sprayed]

Well, i emailed Kim the Human Resources lady I met at the interview and said that I've done pot as short as half a week ago and she said If i can buck the habbit now, by the time I get polygraphed it shouldnt be a big deal.

Im still worried though. If I don't get this gov't clearence I won't be able to make 100k+ a year 5 yrs out of graduation.

Make sure that you discuss your personal information with only the security specialist of the company (Facility Security Officer (FSO) or Contractor Special Security Officer (CSSO)). I wouldn't recommend talking to HR about this. They could use this information against you. Legally they can't do this, but subconsciously they might treat you differently.

You have nothing to worry about. When you go for the poly, the interviewer will go over your SF 86 and will ask you if everything is correct. The questions during the poly are:
-Are you a loyal citizen to the US
-Do you want to overthrow the govt.?
-Do you use illegal drugs, other than what was discussed previously (before the poly, the interviewer will want to know when and how much illegal drugs you have taken. If you answer truthfully then, then during the poly you will pass.)
-Have you ever provided classified information to someone due to blackmail and/or coercion?
-Do you like to take it up the ass? (just kidding, they don't ask about your sexual interests)

There's a few other questions but they are along the lines of the ones above. They will ask you if you look at ways to beat the poly and your answer to this is no. Don't be online looking at ways to beat the poly because they will really scrutinize you. But, trust me, you will be fine. It is not as painful as you think. Just tell them truthfully whatever they want to know and you will be fine.

One last thing. It may take up to 2 years for you to be processed for a clearance. The investigation process can take a long time. Normally, once your investigation closes, the investigator will send their findings to the poly office and they will use this information along with your poly results to make an adjudication. Once adjudicated, they will notify the FSO/CSSO and the FSO/CSSO will schedule you at the CIA for a briefing. Once briefed, you will have Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) access with a TS clearance. You will probably be read into several areas within SCI like acronyms TK and G. I can't tell you what those stand for but they will.

Oh, make sure that you don't have any immediate relatives that are foreign nationals. If you do, you may be automatically disqualified for SCI access.

GL and let me know if you have any other questions and let me know how it turns out.

[Sprayed]

It's no big deal if people know that you are contracted to work with the CIA unless you are told not to discuss this. Your future company should tell you this. What would worry the CIA is if you discussed the classified work that you do with them to people that don't have a clearance or a "need-to-know".

[Sprayed]

Sorry to post so many times, but I also wanted to mention that once you attain a TS/SCI clearance in the DC area or any area with a large Federal govt. base, you will be highly marketable. You can go from job to job making more and more each time. Most engineers with this clearance in the DC area make close to 150k to 200k depending upon your title.

[boost]

lol clearancaments?

[a500lbgorilla]

Thanks Sprayed. Once you told me it'll be easy and i'll be rich, now im excited to get cleared!

[euphoricism]

I doubt he's going straight from no clearance to SCI, sprayed. Don't they generally take you "through the ladder" ? It seems rare for a college grad to jump straight to SCI.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yah, but im pimp as shit.

[a500lbgorilla]

Also, just cuz it slipped my mind.

I was interviewed by the co-founder of the company who says his goal is to make everyone who works for BITS a millionaire. Also, he played in the WSOP last year and was busted by Tex Barch late in the 2nd day with KK vrs AA and 70k behind. He also plans to take everyone who is employed at BITS "somewhere warm" for christmas. Basically, this is going to be the most balla working environment ever.

[Sprayed]

I doubt he's going straight from no clearance to SCI, sprayed. Don't they generally take you "through the ladder" ? It seems rare for a college grad to jump straight to SCI.

Nope, it's that simple. I process recent grads everyday for clearances. The investigation and adjudication is what determines if a person can have access to classified information. SCI is just an access right within the Intel world. Intel agencies put higher safeguards (key word) on their classified information than normal collateral (DOD) clearances. SCI can be a caveat for confidential, secret, and top secret (ex. TS/SCI or Secret/SCI). It's just a special access. In the DOD world, they have a special access program called SAP (Special Access Program). SAP are programs that are black programs and most are known not to exist. They are usually military programs developing new defense items.

The process for rilla will be the following:
-complete the clearance paperwork (SF86) can also be done online with a tool called e-QIP, but I don't think that the CIA will accept that.
-Submit to CIA.
-CIA conducts investigation to include speaking with all of his references.
-Send investigation to poly office
-rilla takes poly
-CIA adjudicates results
-CIA awards clearance eligibility and notifies rilla's contractor
-rilla's contractor schedules him for the SCI briefing
-CIA briefs rilla into SCI
-rilla becomes a wealthy man but then looses his cash playing poker and sells classified information to the Russians so that he can play more poker

Note: The clearance process could take up to two years depending upon his information.

[Sprayed]

Thanks Sprayed. Once you told me it'll be easy and i'll be rich, now im excited to get cleared!

I would say that within 5-10 years you could be doing fairly well. However, as you know, the cost of living will kick your ass if you work the DC Metro area.

[mcatdog]

Rilla,

In my experience, you're screwed. I had an internship a few summers ago that required a TS clearance. A friend of mine also applied, but he got rejected solely for having smoked pot before. He was at least as qualified of an applicant as I was, other than the drugs. Once I passed, I spoke with one of the directors of my program and he said drug use and very close personal connections with foreign nationals are the two things that they pretty much insta-reject you for; everything else isn't that big of a deal (obv if you're like a convicted felon then you're not getting in either). Sorry for the bad news.

When I took my polygraph I kept getting tripped up when I answered a question that I was 100% telling the truth on the whole time, but eventually I passed it. Those things seem pretty damn unreliable but it's government policy to require them. Also, Sprayed is correct that you have several chances to pass them. You're not out of luck if you fail the first one.

Chardrian,

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

I'm like 80% sure you're not serious but if you are, that's is a pretty dumb comment.

[Lukie]

my recommendation: 100% complete honesty

this might peak your interest:

http://antipolygraph.org/

[IowaSkinsFan]

My Advice: RESEARCH ABOUT POLYGRAPHS!!!
They are not accurate, and they are easy to beat once you realize what they react on.
We were just discussing this in my Psych class. She told us if we were ever given a polygraph test to research it so you know how to beat one.

[swiggidy]

My Advice: RESEARCH ABOUT POLYGRAPHS!!!
They are not accurate, and they are easy to beat once you realize what they react on.
We were just discussing this in my Psych class. She told us if we were ever given a polygraph test to research it so you know how to beat one.

Yes, you should take advice from Mr. Community Service.

[euphoricism]

Dont research them. Theyre beatable. By being confident. Believe your own bullshit until it sounds like truth. Thats all you need to know.

[mcatdog]

You guys don't know what you're talking about. You can't beat a lie detector just by appearing confident. When you tell a lie there's a physical reaction that takes place, and a polygraph machine can detect it even if the person you're talking to doesn't know the difference. When I took my polygraph the first thing they did was go through all the days of the week asking "Is today Monday," "Is today Tuesday," etc. and I was supposed to say no to all 7 of them. Obv I was 100% calm because I didn't give a shit what day of the week it was, but when I looked at their printout there was a huge difference when we got to the day of the week where they wanted me to lie.

I understand that it's possible to beat a lie detector but more to it than just confidence. If you think you can not research them and just go in there and lie without them noticing, you're in for a surprise.

[Lukie]

One of the myths about the polygraph machine is that it's capable of detecting lies. That is not the truth. The machine is designed to measure physical reactions that occur in the vast, vast majority of people when they do tell a lie (mainly because the vast, vast majority of people were brought up to believe lying is deceitful, wrong, etc.)

I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff by any stretch, but 'beating' a polygraph test often revolves around recreating these physical reactions (there are many supposed ways, such as biting the side of your tongue) during the control questions.

Being confident is definitely +EV for you if you plan on lying on a polygraph test, for sure.

[Sprayed]

They will ask you if you researched methods to beat the poly. DON'T DO IT! The reason why is because this alone will make it very difficult for you to pass. They will scrutinize every answer you provide. You will not pass on your first try. They will automatically assume that you have something to hide since you are looking at ways to beat it.

As for illegal drugs, it all depends on the agency in which you will be working with. Like I said before, the FBI and DEA are big sticklers on drugs. Every agency is different, unfortunately, in what they consider is more important. For example, if you were going through a background investigation to work at the IRS, they would be more concerned with your credit.

I have done some illegal drugs when I was in college and I admitted to this with the poly interviewer. If you used drugs the day before the poly, then of course you will have some trouble and probably not pass. But rilla, as your HR person stated, if you stop using now, you will be fine by the time you go for the poly. You must put on your SF 86 that you have done illegal drugs. The poly interviewer will go over your clearance paperwork to make sure that everything is correct and then ask you during the poly if you currently use drugs and have ever done drugs. If you said no in your paperwork then you're screwed.

Look, I process contractors for clearances for a living and I have been doing this for about 10 yrs. If you or anyone else here needs more detailed information just let me know. I have some training material that may help everyone understand the clearance process a little better.

[thizzSantaCruz]

*edit* complete hijack so i am going to start my own thread on it.

sorry

[fasin8ing]

Your talking about EPSQ. You shouldnt be too honest when it comes to drugs if youve never been caught. Thats stupid. As far as your bills, and credit history ... It can be verified. DO not lie about this. Do not lie about criminal history. Drugs are a no no .... Do not be honest about this.. You will not get a job. Good luck . What agency is doing your background check? There isnt a polygraph unless your going for a TSCI clearance.


I hold a TS clearance ... Always have. I work as a DOD contractor.

[a500lbgorilla]

How would I not get caught if i'm going to be given a polygraph?!

I especially don't see the problem if i stay clean for 6months prior to the job proving that drugs have zero hold over me.

[chardrian]

Chardrian,

A good poker player would be able to beat the polygraph.

I'm like 80% sure you're not serious but if you are, that's is a pretty dumb comment.

1) "that's is" = that is is.
2) Where are you getting your 80% figure from?
3) I am 100% sure that I have made pretty dumb comments before.
4) I think rilla should stop smoking the ganja at this point if he wants the job, and should tell the truth on the poly since it is clear to me that he would be way too worried about being caught in a lie to ever lie well.

[euphoricism]

Yeah, stay clean, tell the truth. If your HR rep says its ok, its probably perfectly fine.

[Sprayed]

Your talking about EPSQ. You shouldnt be too honest when it comes to drugs if youve never been caught. Thats stupid. As far as your bills, and credit history ... It can be verified. DO not lie about this. Do not lie about criminal history. Drugs are a no no .... Do not be honest about this.. You will not get a job. Good luck . What agency is doing your background check? There isnt a polygraph unless your going for a TSCI clearance.


I hold a TS clearance ... Always have. I work as a DOD contractor.

The EPSQ is obsolete and it is not used any longer. For DoD clearances they use what's called "e-QIP". It is similar to the EPSQ but it is more up-to-date. It is an on-line application through the DoD clearance databased call the JPAS. However, the CIA is an intel agency and doesn't currently comply with DoD processing nor do they have to. This will be changed soon as the Director of Central Intelligence makes some changes.

If you have done drugs and did not state that on your clearance application (SF86, SF85p, EPSQ, e-QIP, etc.) you have committed a federal offense. The clearance application is a legal document and therefore, what you put on it must be truthful. If found that you lied you could go to jail. Either a $10k fine or over 10 years in imprisonment.

In addition, rilla will be polygraphed which means that if he states on his form that he did not do drugs and then admits or doesn't admit during the poly, he will have some explaining to do Lucy. In other words, he may not pass or it may take him several attempts to pass the poly.

I've said this before, I have done drugs and passed a polygraph. I admitted to this and everything was fine. I hold a TS/SCI with a full scope polygraph through a very popular intel agency.

If you haven't done drugs within the last year from the date of your poly, you will be fine. Agencies that have issues with drugs are the agencies that fight crime like the FBI and DEA. If you have ever done drugs in your life these agencies will not accept you.

fasin8ing, I would be very careful to give the advice that you gave to anyone that you work with or is applying for a job that requires a clearance. Very bad advice and I hope that you did not lie on your clearance application.

[mcatdog]

4) I think rilla should stop smoking the ganja at this point if he wants the job, and should tell the truth on the poly since it is clear to me that he would be way too worried about being caught in a lie to ever lie well.

Definitely. Unfortunately, he won't get the job either way IMO, but I think being open about it is his best bet. It sounded like you were suggesting earlier that he go in there and lie his ass off (with possible jail time resulting if he got caught lying), and that he wouldn't get caught because he's good at poker. I guess it should have been 100% obvious that you weren't serious but it's hard to tell sometimes.

[Sprayed]

He will get the job even if he admits to doing drugs. I did drugs in college and admitted to this on my clearance paperwork and during my polygraph. I passed the poly on the first try and I now hold a Top Secret (TS)/Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) clearance with a Full Scope poly (Lifestyle and Counterintelligence poly).

There are standard adjudication requirements that all intelligence agencies follow and it's call the Director of Center of Intelligence Directives (DCID) 6/4. Here is the link for anyone considering going through the clearance process for intel clearances.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/dcid6-4/dcid6-4.pdf

For DoD clearances follow this manual:

http://www.dss.mil/files/pdf/nispom2006-5220.pdf

Lastly, stop giving advice if you have not gone through this or do this as a profession such as myself. I don't mean to be hostile here, but providing people with the wrong advice considering that this is a very serious process, not to mention federal laws are in play, can lead people in the wrong direction and get them in a lot of trouble.

Is anyone not reading my other posts? Were they tl;dr?

[chardrian]

I guess it should have been 100% obvious that you weren't serious but it's hard to tell sometimes.

No one can read me.

[mcatdog]

Sprayed,

I'm not talking out of my ass. I had an internship with NSA that required a TS/SCI clearance and I was told in no uncertain terms and by multiple people, that at NSA, a history of drug use means your application goes straight to the wastebasket. Also my friend failed his background check for the same internship because he put on his form that he'd smoked pot before.

Perhaps certain agencies within the DoD have a stricter policy than others on this matter?

[Sprayed]

Sprayed,

I'm not talking out of my ass. I had an internship with NSA that required a TS/SCI clearance and I was told in no uncertain terms and by multiple people, that at NSA, a history of drug use means your application goes straight to the wastebasket. Also my friend failed his background check for the same internship because he put on his form that he'd smoked pot before.

Perhaps certain agencies within the DoD have a stricter policy than others on this matter?

My TS/SCI is through NSA and I processed clearances for contract work with them. This is the agency that I was talking about and I told them up front about my drug history. If you did drugs within the last year from the date of your poly appointment you may have had problems. However, the majority of the college grads that I processed had a drug history and they made it through. I'm talking from experience and from the adjudication instructions that were given to me from NSA.

If you were a contractor doing an internship, the contractor may have assumed that you might have issues and didn't want to take the chance, so they didn't process you.

The other thing is, and this is a misconception by most contractors, that your clearance form can not be used to determine if you can be hired or not. This is illegal. Most companies adopt a security prescreen to see if there are any issues that may cause a delay in getting a clearance or not receiving a clearance all together.

Once the applicant puts his/her information on the form, the company can not choose to not hire the person and not submit. They must submit the form for processing and let the chips fall where they may. If the agency determines not to award the clearance, then the company can terminate the employee. The offer letter holds the company to this. If they used the security form in order to terminate employment, then this would be a wrongful termination.

[Rabid Dog]

Be honest and tell the truth. If you can stay clean for 6 months before the test, or longer if you have time, then just answer honestly and state you havent done anything recent.

Also, I'm pretty sure they will make you take a drug test. I had to when I worked for the government and applied for clearance. Never had to take a poly though. But I was just on the civilian side of the air force, not cia or anything like that. Still it would probably benefit you to get them out of your system just incase you are given a drug test.

[Sprayed]

The contractor may require a drug test, but the agency won't make him take one.

[Rabid Dog]

, but the agency won't make him take one.

Why take that chance though? I worked as part of a hazardous chemical unit, we had to take them. In fact, my supervisor was fired (actually given the choice to resign) because he couldn't stay clean. He would come up missing for a couple weeks every few months. They finally found out when this happened it was because he would check himself into drug rehab at one of the hospitals. Only way they found out was one of the guys I worked with happened to be a nurse at the hospital he would check into.

Of course it is true that not all agency's require a drug test. The governments funny. You can work at one location with one set of rules, and another location for the same job will have a different set of standards. I have a friend who just transfered from the base here to a base is South Texas. Doing the same exact job. There they are required to wear uniforms that differentiate between whether you are a WG, GS, or whatever (determined by the color shirt, the rest of the uni is exact), here that would have been unheard of. I just gave this as an example of how different bases work, even though its not really related to the question in general.

Me before being riffed into the warehouse job (hazardous waste) I was a machinist. With the machinist job a drug test was like a lottery, if your number came up you were tested. In the warehouse job it was anually.

I just wanted to make the point of why take the chance. Heck you can always go back to your pot after you are hired.

[Sprayed]

It's all about who your employer is. Some agencies will ask for the contractor to show them verification that they passed the drug test. This is part of the Statement of Work (SOW) and it will be spelled out that this is a requirement.

But not all do this and I know that the CIA doesn't currently do this. There is a cost involved and normally the contractor will charge the govt. for the processing. So, a lot of agencies don't require this because they don't want to pay for it. Like you said, Rabid Dog, each agency is different. I have seen this at the Position of Trust levels with agencies like the IRS and support groups like Sallie Mae.

[Rabid Dog]

Were I worked, a lot depended on who was running the base at the time. That also held true on other areas of the base also, not only the employee side. Like depending on which bird was running the base made a huge difference in how well kept the golf course or gym was. Of course this is a little off topic. lol

[fasin8ing]

Yeah .. Be sure you tell them how many times youve done acid, your on anti depressants, and you have ADD. Sprayed.. I am sure your a clean kind of guy.... I would never tell the truth about anything like that when it has to do with employment. If you havent been busted for it, why say it? EPSQ is what I used back in the day when I was military working in USASOC. I never had to redo anything, I just extended and renewed through the years. Sprayed, I can also tell your a total Security Nazi, by all means .. If you work at NSA, listen to this guy.. Were you EX MI?
No DOD Contractor will take a drug test if its not in the SOW or in the deliverables per se. I didnt take a poly for a TS clearance either.

Listen to MCAT.. Rilla.
Fas.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm not going to lie if I have to take a lie detector test.

[Sprayed]

Yeah .. Be sure you tell them how many times youve done acid, your on anti depressants, and you have ADD. Sprayed.. I am sure your a clean kind of guy.... I would never tell the truth about anything like that when it has to do with employment. If you havent been busted for it, why say it? EPSQ is what I used back in the day when I was military working in USASOC. I never had to redo anything, I just extended and renewed through the years. Sprayed, I can also tell your a total Security Nazi, by all means .. If you work at NSA, listen to this guy.. Were you EX MI?
No DOD Contractor will take a drug test if its not in the SOW or in the deliverables per se. I didnt take a poly for a TS clearance either.

Listen to MCAT.. Rilla.
Fas.

Well, when you are dealing with classified information, I think that you have to be a security Nazi. I am audited by the govt. (Defense Security Services (DSS)) which means that I have to have everything in order. If not, they can remove any work that my company does with the govt. In addition, they can prevent any future work because they will take away our Facility Clearance (you need this to do classified work). Also, any negative shit that an employee does could be a direct reflection on my company.

As for lying on a govt. form about anything that you have done, don't think that they can't find out. The investigator will speak with all of your references and they will also speak with anyone that they come across that knew you. If you burned some bridges in the past, there may be a person that will tell the investigator some nasty shit about you.

The bottom line is that it's not an auto disqualifier if you've done drugs. It's about how long ago you did them and if you are currently a user. The polygraph interviewer will ask rilla how many times he has done each type of drug. If he is not honest, he will not pass. All they want to see is if rilla is telling the truth and not currently on drugs.

I am clean now, but in my college days I did shrooms, acid, opium, and pot. I told the poly interviewer all of this and she asked how many times did I do these drugs. I came-up with a number and she asked if this is correct and I said I think so. She said, what number would you feel would make you comfortable when doing the poly. She said 100? I said yes that sounds fine.

I think that a lot of you guys are mixing apples and oranges. You are relating either military experiences that happened some time ago (the clearance process is somewhat different for contractors) or you are using experiences with other agencies that have different requirements for drug use.

If you all think that it's ok to lie on a federal form, then go for it. Just don't be upset if this comes to bite you in the ass and you either have to pay a fine, go to jail, or not get the job.

You all might think that I'm out of my head for taking this serious, but stop and think why the govt. requires the clearance and why they are entrusting you with this information. They have investigated you and believe that you are a trustworthy person to have access to classified. If they determine that you are able to lie then what else are you capable of ? Having a clearance is not a right it's a privilege. Also, when you are awarded a clearance it's not your clearance it's still the govt.'s.

Why would rilla listen to people that only have held a clearance and not the guy that holds a TS/SCI Full Scope Poly through NSA, DIA, and NGA and processes clearances for DoS, DoJ, FBI, NSA, CIA, DIA, NRO, NASA, NGA and many others that you might not know the acronym. I have been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm not just pulling this shit out of my ass and making assumptions as to what I think the govt. will accept and won't accept. These are their standards that I go by not mine.

And no, I'm not prior military, however I work with a lot of them.

[Sprayed]

I would never tell the truth about anything like that when it has to do with employment.

This was in one of my posts above.

The other thing is, and this is a misconception by most contractors, that your clearance form can not be used to determine if you can be hired or not. This is illegal. Most companies adopt a security prescreen to see if there are any issues that may cause a delay in getting a clearance or not receiving a clearance all together.

In other words, legally, your company can not make hiring decisions based off of your clearance application. Only your interview, resume, Employment Application, and work performance can determine that. The clearance application is only for getting a clearance. Now, if the agency decides not to issue a clearance, then the company can let you go since you do not meet the requirements of the job description.

The only person that can legally see your personal information on your security form is the company security officer. You can even tell this person that you do not want them read the section in the form where you list mental illness, drug use, credit issues, etc. The security officer is legally not permitted to share this information with anyone else without the applicant's permission.

[Rabid Dog]

As for lying on a govt. form about anything that you have done, don't think that they can't find out. The investigator will speak with all of your references and they will also speak with anyone that they come across that knew you. If you burned some bridges in the past, there may be a person that will tell the investigator some nasty shit about you.

This is very true. 2 years ago a 2 OBI officers came to my door asking questions about a neighbor of mine. Things like how long he had lived there, does he cause disturbances, what kind of individual is he. Have we noticed any drug use. Things like that. I told my neighbor about it the next time I saw him. He laughed and said he was applying for a job within the government, I believe it was FBI, working with computers. He was just about to graduate.

[givememyleg]

why would anyone deny a job to a 500 pound gorilla. just seems risky to me because of their bad temper.

[fasin8ing]

I have been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm not just pulling this shit out of my ass and making assumptions as to what I think the govt. will accept and won't accept. These are their standards that I go by not mine.

And no, I'm not prior military, however I work with a lot of them.

Ok dude.. So your credible. All I am saying is in my personal opinion... You will get hired alot easier if you leave out the shit. I have a good friend that is a Recruiter ... He has been for a few years.. Put over 200 kids in the Army.. Lots of them went into IT, Signal , or MI. He will make sure they dont say anything stupid. Some kid tried to get in the other week.. He specifically told him.. Do not say you have ADD. He told them.. He didnt make the cut. Rilla, I am not sure if I read ... What exactly are you going to be doing? Whats the deliverables on your contract? Where will you be working? What company ? DOD contractors rarely take drug tests. If you are working around aviation, or sensitive shit.. You might. As for the rest, unless there is an accident at work.... You may get tested.

Rilla, I play the old.. Experimental type bullshit as a kid growing up.... if you choose to be honest.. I am only saying pot ... when it comes down to it..

[Sprayed]

Your recruiter should only be talking about qualifications for the position and nothing about their personal life. This could get the company in hot water. Leave this stuff up to the security officer of the company. When the security officer verifies their clearance, they can perform a security prescreen and then tell the recruiter if the candidate does or does not have the ability to make it through the process. The security officer can't tell HR the specifics, but they can give their professional opinion as to whether or not they would make it through.

[fasin8ing]

Your recruiter should only be talking about qualifications for the position and nothing about their personal life. This could get the company in hot water. Leave this stuff up to the security officer of the company. When the security officer verifies their clearance, they can perform a security prescreen and then tell the recruiter if the candidate does or does not have the ability to make it through the process. The security officer can't tell HR the specifics, but they can give their professional opinion as to whether or not they would make it through.

United States Army Recruiter Sprayed. And they dont have rules, nor do they follow them. Sorry bout the confusion.

[a500lbgorilla]

Well, i sent it in today. And it has everything i've done. Includign coke but excluding my desire to try acid. The head of HR said she'll review my forms and advise me further since they want me to get cleared as much as I do.

[a500lbgorilla]

Fascinating, i'll be working on satellites (dynamics, positioning and controls) for BIT-systems. Their biggest contractor is the CIA.

[Rabid Dog]

Good luck rilla, hope all goes well.

[fasin8ing]

Fascinating, i'll be working on satellites (dynamics, positioning and controls) for BIT-systems. Their biggest contractor is the CIA.

Awesome job... You ever look into Harris? Harris has a bunch of Contracts with Sat.

[swiggidy]

Fascinating, i'll be working on satellites (dynamics, positioning and controls) for BIT-systems. Their biggest contractor is the CIA.

Awesome job... You ever look into Harris? Harris has a bunch of Contracts with Sat.

I'm applying at harris