I DONKBETTED TEH TURN

[Renton]

villain unknown

POKERSTARS GAME #9765585755: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/05/05 - 17:54:30 (ET)
Table 'Hudrus' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: zqxjk ($130.25 in chips)
Seat 2: cyberpeogh ($197 in chips)
Seat 3: \_íppì ($119.60 in chips)
Seat 4: Renton555 ($200 in chips)
Seat 5: terryfan ($200 in chips)
Seat 6: fuzzycat ($220.50 in chips)
Seat 7: MitchD ($189.45 in chips)
Seat 8: Arlequin333 ($192 in chips)
Seat 9: only1likeme7 ($83.90 in chips)
Arlequin333: posts small blind $1
only1likeme7: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Renton555 [Kc Ad]

zqxjk: folds
cyberpeogh: folds
\_íppì: folds
Renton555: raises $6 to $8
terryfan: calls $8
fuzzycat: folds
MitchD: calls $8
Arlequin333: folds
only1likeme7: folds

*** FLOP *** [Kh Ah 5c]

Renton555: bets $18
terryfan: raises $36 to $54
MitchD: folds
Renton555: calls $36

*** TURN *** [Kh Ah 5c] [8s]

Renton555: bets $138 and is all-in

[minSim]

I think it's good. It's about a potsized bet. You don't want to give a free card...and betting any other amount let villain get away on the river, or let the money go in anyway

[Fnord]

Shoving the flop is by far a better play.

[Reidak]

Shoving the flop is by far a better play.

explain pls?

[Warpe]

PEOPLE WHO USE "TEH" JUST MAKE ME CRAZY. FUCKING DYSLEXICS.

Reraise frop a/i before the turn kills your action.

[Miffed22001]

PEOPLE WHO USE "TEH" JUST MAKE ME CRAZY. FUCKING DYSLEXICS.

Reraise frop a/i before the turn kills your action.

i lol'ed

(although i needed to think about it)

[zook]

Meh, wa/wb. I like pushing the flop sometimes, as played I think I like c/c'ing or c/bombing the turn. Can't think of a worse hand that calls this donkpush.

[phantom_lord]

shoving flop is better i think.

[Fnord]

Shoving the flop is by far a better play.

explain pls?

Worse Ax hands will put you on a draw and often call. Flush draws will still be nearly priced out of the pot.

[gabe]

yea more value in flop shove

[Renton]

well he calls with nothing worse when i shove the flop. Most players in these games are smart enough to instamuck AQ and stuff here to a shove (although most people wouldnt rz those hands on the flop to begin with).

So I figure if i shove the flop, i get called by combo draws and sets and AK.

I took the line i took to maximise vs the draw part of his range and i also thought he would have a better chance of calling this with AQ than a flop shove (at the time, i'm pretty sure i wasn't thinking correctly though).

So anyway, as far as there being more value in a flop shove, why is that? Do we make enough from the times he folds that we don't care about when he has us beat or is drawing strong?

[Renton]

also, a small mathematical question. Say we put him squarely QJs for the gutshot+ flush draw. What mathematically is the most plus ev line for the flop and turn. (i'd calculate this but don't feel like it)

[gabe]

well he calls with nothing worse when i shove the flop. Most players in these games are smart enough to instamuck AQ and stuff here to a shove (although most people wouldnt rz those hands on the flop to begin with).

then why the hell are you playing like a tag? if people insta fold whatever they raise the flop with then id be playing like 40 vpip. there are def worse hands calling.

[Fnord]

also, a small mathematical question. Say we put him squarely QJs for the gutshot+ flush draw. What mathematically is the most plus ev line for the flop and turn. (i'd calculate this but don't feel like it)

We can't put him exactly on stuff like this, playing games on the flop puts us in the position of guessing what he has. By the sounds of it, you don't seem to have a strong enough grip on his tendencies to want to play guessing games here. Generally in big bet poker you want your opponent to be the one guessing.

[Renton]

also, a small mathematical question. Say we put him squarely QJs for the gutshot+ flush draw. What mathematically is the most plus ev line for the flop and turn. (i'd calculate this but don't feel like it)

We can't put him exactly on stuff like this, playing games on the flop puts us in the position of guessing what he has. By the sounds of it, you don't seem to have a strong enough grip on his tendencies to want to play guessing games here. Generally in big bet poker you want your opponent to be the one guessing.

no don't misunderstand, i was just curious of that hypothetical scenario

[Renton]

well he calls with nothing worse when i shove the flop. Most players in these games are smart enough to instamuck AQ and stuff here to a shove (although most people wouldnt rz those hands on the flop to begin with).

then why the hell are you playing like a tag? if people insta fold whatever they raise the flop with then id be playing like 40 vpip. there are def worse hands calling.

well, i don't think its so much of a question of how aggressively i play as how aggressively this game generally plays and how aggressively villain generally plays. 1/2 fr on stars is a very nitty game, and most every one mucks all but AA/KK/AK and combo draws to a 3bet here. They also probably don't raise much other than AA/KK/AK and combo draws here to begin with. Do you disagree with this gabe?