Theory post: ace-high flops in 3-bet pots

[mcatdog]

I've seen at least 5 threads on here and 2+2 where someone 3-bet pre-flop with AK, got called, and hit their ace on a dry flop, and good players advised the OP to check the flop. I see the logic behind checking, and presumably you're checking KK and QQ there too, but it makes me wonder something. If I called a 3-bet from a good player (who sometimes 3-bet with trash) and the flop was A-high, how would I do with this strategy: if they c-bet, shove with any two. If they don't c-bet, then bet if you hit the flop hard, shut down otherwise. Would this be +EV, and how long would it take them to catch on?

[sauce123]

good and simple post. You're right, if someone is checking behind his tptk/or tpgk in threebet A high flops then you should c/s every A high flop.

This is something im definetely going to pay attention to more.

[bigspenda73]

We're assuming you were 3bet from the blinds then and are in position?

I cbet about 120% of the time in a 3bet pot no matter if I hold QQ and an Ace flops or I have AK and an ace flops.

[sauce123]

oh btw that was isf on sauces account. sauce may have a different opinion.

[zook]

Food for thought. Problem is that a lot of players don't auto-check A high flops after c-betting. I know I mix up checks and bets with AJ+/underpairs/sc's/sets... seems tough to get a solid read that a bet always means no ace here.

[Halv]

^^ what he said. With the right read any play can be +EV.

One more aspect to consider is that the villain will expect you to smooth call his cbet with Ax on Axx flop, making him more inclined to call your shove with, say, KK. This obviously makes shoving with Ax a nice play against them. An interesting spot against the villains at that level is when you hold KK and shove over his cbet to get a call from a lesser pair.

It's all about knowing your opponent.

Here's a general question/semi hi-jack re: 3bet pots: is it profitable in general to defend against semi-light 3-bets with sub-par holdings?

[zenbitz]

oh btw that was isf on sauces account. sauce may have a different opinion.

COLLUSION!

[gabe]

against bad players u should bet it. they arent going to try to exploit you so dont worry about it.

against someone who bluffs too much you check

against someone good you bet and c/c and c/r

[benny999]

good point...but i bet in those threads where ppl said to check, there was some specific sort of reason, and that they wouldn't say to always check it.

[Genitruc]

sounds +ev to me

i think it'd take a reasonable player 3-4 pots to realize wtf was going on