Lighter 3 bet experiments.

[mixchange]

This post is about light 3 betting and its effect on my game.

Feel free to reply to any number of hands, just curious to see what people think, as this is really a new part of my game I'm trying to open up. I've noticed just by 3 betting more often I've already gone AI with AA and KK PF a lot more easily.

I'm going to 3 bet a very wide range in some sessions, then in other sessions stick to the conservative range (JJ IP, KK, AA, AKs IP) and compare results.

So I was 3betting A10s, AJs, AQ/AK, PPs 88 and above.

Hand 1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($200)
Button ($231)
Hero ($281.65)
BB ($161.10)
UTG ($300.60)
MP ($202.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, T.
UTG raises to $6, 2 folds, Button calls $6, Hero raises to $24, 1 fold, UTG calls $18, Button folds.

Flop: ($56) 9, 3, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $40, UTG calls $40.

Turn: ($136) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($136) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: $136


Villain had AQ here. Interesting that he checked the turn and river, shows the power of 3betting pre. I wonder if I could have gotten a fold with a big river bet posing as AK.

Image has been tight, never shown down a bluff or been out of line. Do you make another strong Turn bet or is that spew? I figured he had JJ or AQ based on his flop call. I think turn is check, but do you try to steal the river? I just hate bluffs where you lead the flop, check turn, and bet river. Those usually reek to me.






Hand 2


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($236.55)
MP ($151.20)
CO ($129.05)
Button ($197)
Hero ($222.20)
BB ($57.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J.
1 fold, MP raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero raises to $18, 1 fold, MP calls $12.

Flop: ($38) K, 2, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP calls $20.

Turn: ($78) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $34, MP raises to $68, Hero raises to $184.2, MP calls $45.20 (All-In).

River: ($304.40) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $304.40

Another OOP 3bet, this is going to be the edge of my 3bet range, AJs. I liked my hand if villain hit flop I expected him to raise, then I would re-raise AI. Villain tried to rep the flush on turn, but I had the goods... villain shows QJc





Hand 3

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($217.85)
SB ($238.40)
Hero ($205.65)
UTG ($273.40)
MP ($188.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K.
UTG raises to $6, 1 fold, Button calls $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $22, UTG raises to $273.4, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $51


Makes me wonder if it's better to just call here since I'm OOP. He did notice me 3betting with 1010 in the above hand so maybe he had jacks or something...






Hand 4

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($313.05)
UTG ($200.95)
MP ($112.90)
CO ($198)
Hero ($317.50)
SB ($202.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO raises to $10, Hero raises to $32, SB calls $31, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO folds.

Flop: ($78) J, 2, 6 (2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, SB calls $20.

Turn: ($138) Q (2 players)
SB bets $140.25 (All-In), Hero calls $140.25.

River: ($0) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $418.50

ok, the donk had A5o! But I bet without the 3 betting juicing the pot, he never makes a move like that. So that's a big plus of the 3 betting i'm noticing. People will make crazy plays just because the pot is big.






Hand 5

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($269.55)
BB ($556.65)
UTG ($252)
MP ($348)
CO ($115.40)
Button ($377.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
1 fold, MP raises to $6, CO calls $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, MP calls $14, CO folds.

Flop: ($48) 6, 2, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $30, MP raises to $328, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $108

I know this looks like a weak fold, but I folded due to my image -- I had called an AI on a turn about 20 hands earlier where a different villain open pushed turn which was over a pot size bet with a set, and I had middle 2 pair (terrrrible call on my part) so I figured villain here might have a set and look to get paid before scare cards came out, putting me on an overpair. This villain had been playing very well, making some awesome thin calls. Never out of line... I figured at best, I'm up against a monster draw, at worst behind to a set.





Hand 6

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($269.55)
CO ($556.65)
Button ($252)
SB ($348)
BB ($115.40)
UTG ($377.85)

I have A10d, lol AJs really should be my edge in the 'light 3bet' mode right?

HH got borked but I think it was UTG raised to $6, I re-raised to $24, and UTG re-raised to $60. Fold right? Too easily dominated? Or would AK never play this way and we could hit an A on the flop for the price?

I folded... but I made the move cuz I had position. But A10d is a pretty marginal hand and anyone calling my raise probably either has a PP to setmine me or AQ/AK and i'm likely to get outkicked.






Hand 7


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($226.55)
Button ($448.65)
Hero ($166.30)
BB ($218.25)
UTG ($197.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8.
2 folds, Button raises to $8, Hero raises to $22, 1 fold, Button calls $14.

Flop: ($46) 4, 7, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $24, Button calls $24.

Turn: ($94) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $72, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $94


I guess he hit the queen? Villain is VERY loose, a super LAGG I've played a lot who often has bizarre cards. In retrospect the wrong guy to 3bet a PP with I guess, but I felt like he was just makign a move with the button.







Hand 8


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($198)
BB ($445.70)
UTG ($267)
MP ($191.85)
Hero ($455.15)
Button ($52.90)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, A.
1 fold, MP raises to $8, Hero raises to $22, 2 folds, BB raises to $46, MP folds, Hero raises to $455.15, BB calls $399.70 (All-In).

Flop: ($900.40) 7, 4, 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($900.40) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($900.40) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $900.41

Is this normally too aggressive considering the 225BB stacks? folding out too many hands?? 3rd Biggest pot I've ever been in. I felt like even though I got a call, I should have re-raised to maybe $110 and not AI, as a lot of hands probably fold and I lose value. This is the same opponent though that tried to rep the flush on the turn when I had AJd in Hand2





Hand 9

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($226.55)
Button ($448.65)
Hero ($166.30)
BB ($218.25)
UTG ($215.45)
MP ($197.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A. UTG posts a blind of $2.

CO raises to $8, Button raises to $24, I re-raise AI. Hand History Converter borked.

Villain tanked for almost a full minute using Timer before calling with 99 (I was shocked, I expected jacks maybe...). Under my conservative PF strategy, I would have folded to the 3bet. I really felt like this play should have worked considering his cards. I mean best case he's a slight favorite, most of the time it seems like he's gonna be behind badly to an overpair. Would you call in villain's shoes? I hadn't been out of line and hadnt pushed AI pf or even tangled with him much. I had actually been folding a lot prior...

What do you think? Good play?

[mixchange]

Hand 10


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($226.60)
MP ($230.40)
Button ($193)
Hero ($842.75)
BB ($342.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, Q.
2 folds, Button raises to $8, Hero raises to $24, 1 fold, Button calls $16.

Flop: ($50) K, A, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $26, Button raises to $169, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $102


This just reeked of a move to me, but I could see him with a set hoping I had AK. I dunno. I hate folding here. I almost actually checked here, wondering what value really there was in betting

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Hand 1). I would lead the river. In RR pots your range is going to be much tighter, and villain will be aware of this. Basically this will make villain more inclined to fold on a scary card.

Hand 2). I would lead the turn for more. Villain isn't folding A-K/K-Q/Q-Q/K-K to a bigger turn bet, but A-Q is very unlikely to continue regardless of what amount you bet on the turn. This way you can get AI easier.

Hand 3). You actually have more reason to 3bet OOP IMO, since you have more incentive to finish the pot before the flop comes.

Hand 4). I dislike the small flop raise, since it is either a monster or a total bluff. And since you are offering some excellent odds this play will never work as a bluff. To a halfway smart player this is obv for value and you will never get a weaker hand than Q-Q+ to continue, unless they have a FD in which case you are offering them excellent odds to outdraw you. Plus even though Q-Q may fold to a strong flop raise, K-K+ is never folding so you might as well jam the flop.

Hand 5). He may also choose to bluff you since he knows you just lost a big pot when you made a big call, and won't want to play a big pot again unless you have a monster. I would call the flop shove.

Hand 6). Unless i had an excellent reason i would never call a 4bet with A-10. I probably also wouldn't 3bet an UTG raise with A-10. I save my lightest 3betting for CO/BTN openers.

Hand 7). c-bet more on the flop. I would bet $36-41 (~3/4 pot), because IMO villain's are less likely to float you if the flop bet is larger. I also don't double barrel the second queen, and i also c/f turn.

Hand 8). I like calling PF and c/r'ing AI on any flop. A 5bet to me says K-K+, and villain should only be calling with K-K+. This would be a very difficult spot to extract value from a weaker hand than K-K+, though. I feel the only way to do so is to let villain c-bet the flop. Nice hand though!

Hand 9). I think you played it fine.

Hand 10). 3bet to $28 PF and lead for $45 on the flop. This way if villain shoves you are getting better than 2:1 to call and can profitably do so. His range probably includes flush draws, A-K, A-Q, sometimes a weaker Ace and even occassionally a complete bluff.

As played it is much more marginal, and i would probably fold this.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

wayyy too many hands... can you edit and just include the more interesting ones?

From skimming over i noticed that you are making some pretty tight folds in 3-bet pots. I think you'd be surprised at how much crap people show up with. I think you definitely need to be showing down more.

[Galapogos]

Hand #1: I push this almost all the time.

Hand #2: Nice.

Hand #3: Don't 3-bet like a girl, especially OOP. I do about $27-29 here. I fold here.

Hand #4: Why do you make a bigger raise here? I hate your flop bet, why so weak?

Hand #5: With your reads I guess a fold is ok. I don't like to though. Had you made a proper 3-bet preflop this hand would be a lot easier.

Hand #6: Don't raise UTG bets with trash like this unless they have a huge range. Fold is no question.

Hand #7: I don't like 3-betting LAggs OOP.

Hand #8: Weak 3-bet sucks again, yeah I think a smaller 5-bet would be in order but hey, you got all his monies.

Hand #9: I think a call or 4-bet looks stronger. I fold here personally but my games aren't aggressive.

Hand #10: Depends on the opponent. I usually call because I'm a station. Like you noted in one of the above hands, people do dumb shit in 3-bet pots.

Cliff notes: Make bigger 3-bets.

[Lukie]

So I was 3betting A10s, AJs, AQ/AK, PPs 88 and above.

more ideally you have to very your range based on players/reads, image, position, opponent's range and what he thinks your range is, stack sizes, etc. You want to have a dynamic range. Also consider that you don't want to necessarily just 3-bet the top x% of your range; sometimes (and the key word here is sometimes) it's better to call with some hands that have value to call with (say maybe, 88 or AJs) and 3-bet some trashier hands that would be -EV to call with but perhaps +EV to 3-bet with. Could be 33 or 67s or A9o, hard to say. gotta go back to my first sentence.

[snowbird4life]

Im bored so ill post a long post in response to your long post . In general, i think loosening up your 3bet range and getting better at 3 betting when appropriate given the circumstances is great and can really help your game so im glad your looking into it.

General Observations:
Call more of those tight spots, i think sometimes your giving villain too much credit and giving up too easily. Size your 3bets preflop a little better and more consistent. Oh and don't 3bet loose donks without premiums I know your 3betting a lot in this session, but i still would try to use it more situationally.

Hand 1: Looks fine, although i think i bet more on the flop like ~50ish, although it prolly wouldn't have mattered given results, i just like to give the impression of an overpair trying to prevent someone drawing out on me. As for your comments, i don't think you could have gotten a fold anywhere reasonably in this hand postflop. I think betting the turn is usually spew and is getting called.

Hand 2: Prolly wouldn't normally 3bet this pre, but as played it seems fine. Might have waited till the river to get his last $45 in for sure by just calling but meh not sure it matters.

Hand 3: 3 bet more preflop. As for the flop, I normally fold here as well. You have to figure at best your a 50% favorite so follld. Not sure where stacking off with ak is standard but im pretty sure its not 200nl.

Hand 4: Looks good and standard. Why cant donks throw money at me like this? lol. Anyway, your 3betting may have been part of it, but i think most of it is he is just a donk donking off.

Hand 5: Why raise to $20 pre and not $24? It seems like in most the other hands your raising to $24, but here your raising to $20? If its because you have kk, just raise your standard $24, even with your aa/kk etc. As for your flop play, i think it is pretty weak. I think i call his shove, although how you describe him, he seems like a good thinking player, i still call the shove because i just can't see him shoving a set/two pair, which is all your behind to. IMO hes more likely to have something like AQd or something drawing.

Hand 6: I think your over thinking this. A10 is out of normal light 3bet range and you just got 4bet. Follllllllld.

Hand 7: I definitely would Not 3bet this against villain as you described him. I hate 3betting or bluffing even semibluffing someone who is so loose you know will call 90percent of the time with anything. It essentially means your on a drawing hand and need to hit your 8 to win most of the time. As for the flop, why bet so little? your repping a great hand pre, so i would bet ~42ish. Turn is confusing, i think as played i would second barrel this turn since theres a pretty good chance your actually ahead here. By checking, you essentially give up and if i was villain, i bluff here as well usually. So ya as played second barrel the turn imo.

Hand 8: Although i may have just called his 4bet and hoped to get everything else in on the flop, if not the turn, i like the way you played it. I don't think 5 betting is a good idea at all, when you 5 bet, you pretty much telegraph for your opponent that you have at least kk. Where as shoving widens your range imo. If someone shoves here i would think anywhere from JJ+ to AK and ill be more likely to call, where as if someone 5bets, i would be wary even with kk.

Hand 9: Unless you have reads on button that he 3bets light or something i wouldn't stack off here. In villains shoes i think your shove would be suspicious so im pretty sure i would at least think about calling.

Hand 10: Why so small a cbet on the flop? Arn't you repping a good hand with your 3bet? It just seems weak and asking for a raise here with that bet. As played i call button's allin. I think this is far too weak to fold here imo.

[Fnord]

Yeah, you're turning hands like 88 and AJ that play well with lots of money behind into mostly bluffs.

One of my 3-bet ranges is something like AA-QQ/AK, suited trash with maybe 22-55 and AQ thrown in. Usually I don't get action the first couple times I do it, so I go with the trash early (unless I pick up a hand), then hope they loosen up just as I hit a hand...