thoughts on an article

[will641]

http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/a...s/hilger06.htm

A lot of you have probably already read this article, but I am curious as to what your opinions of it are, how valid it is, if I should pay attention to it, etc.

[IPlayTight]

I disagree with the value of bluffing, but agree with the ease of it. with little experience i probably have no right to disagree with the guy, but i know many people watch other players when playing online regardless of how many other things they may be doing. With instant hand histories, you dont even have to watch a particular hand to find out he may have been bluffing; instead you can just look the hand up later on. I think his advice is more applicable for low limits where people dont care, but otherwise i think its pretty safe to say that your opponents are watching you.

With the ease of bluffing though, he is correct in saying that people try it more. Also, something he didnt touch on, many actions are faster on the internet...i dont mean hands per hour, but the actual action of the player. Mike Caro says that many poker decisions are made on a whim, and when the players take less time to think, little things like anger or curiosity can be enough to hit the call button.

[zook]

I agree with Hilger. Bluffing beyond c-bets, semibluffs and occasional second barrels is way overrated.

[Sheetah]

Agree with Hilger. And if you want to test it I suggest an experiment: Make a decision that you'll not make a single bluff in next couple of days or so (except for cbets that are not necessarily a bluff) and see what happens.

[will641]

Agree with Hilger. And if you want to test it I suggest an experiment: Make a decision that you'll not make a single bluff in next couple of days or so (except for cbets that are not necessarily a bluff) and see what happens.

its just so crazy it might work! in all seriousness i try that a lot and always find a rack disciprine.

[Sheetah]

Agree with Hilger. And if you want to test it I suggest an experiment: Make a decision that you'll not make a single bluff in next couple of days or so (except for cbets that are not necessarily a bluff) and see what happens.

its just so crazy it might work! in all seriousness i try that a lot and always find a rack disciprine.

It does work (and yes - discipline is the key). In fact most players would be surprised of how high (stakes-wise) straightforward poker is still winning poker.

[Sheetah]

On a slightly different note (but closely connected with the issue):

if you read posts of winning medium to high stakes players you'll find they all have something in common: they are all fond of fastplaying monsters.

Does that 'click' ?

[gabe]

hilger doesnt play with tough players

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Someone, a microstakes player, recently asked me where i make my money in poker. I told him this: The thing i make the most off of is value betting, i'm usually good at extracting good value out of all my hands. Then calling down bluffs in small pots. Then well timed, solid bluffs that will usually work (some of which are not standard at all)...

and lastly, i probably make a little money (in a vaccum) on big bluffs, although they will fail a lot.

But if you are almost never making big bluffs against decent players it's going to hurt the value of your other hands a lot. In terms of loose donkeys, you're not going to have to expand the value of your hands because they aren't playing attention/won't adjust/ already are wayyy too loose.

[Fnord]

The only issue I have is that if you're playing hold'em it's hard to pick-up a good hand even if you know the other guy is speeding. Also I spew a lot fighting the c-bet war which I think is worth winning or at least fighting.

That said, I sometimes wonder about the value of follow-through in NLHE.

[Sheetah]

But if you are almost never making big bluffs against decent players it's going to hurt the value of your other hands a lot.

Very true. In fact in his book 'Mathematics of Poker' Bill Chen stated that one should aim to be break even on his bluffs - that way he can be sure he's extracting the most money with value bets, which is according to Chen theoretical optimum. But then again how can you actually know true long term BB/100 on all your bluffs. Can anyone do it? Last night for example I was value betting A-high on paired 3-flush board. Was this a bluff? No, I had very very good read (thinly concealed brag, obv) that his one card straight draw missed and that my A-high top kicker is good.

My motto on this one is "first things first". Learn to be disciplined value bettor and only then start expanding your arsenal.