ISF's free coaching contest!!! (Ends midnight tonight!!)

[IowaSkinsFan]

Hey guys,

So I'd really like to see if I can do well in this coaching thing. I have very little experience though and would like to get better before I start charging for it. So I'm going to give away 2 hours of free coaching to two people on FTR. Here's how you enter the contest and the rules:

-I'm going to post a HH
-People will PM me a detailed answer to what decision they feel like should be made, and also, and probably more importantly, any place they feel they would play it differently, as minute as those criticisms may be, every little bit counts.
-The winner won't necessarily be the one with the best or right answer, but may be moreso based on other factors i will not name. BUT whether or not you come to the best answer will be strongly considered.
-This contest will end on this Friday at midnight ET.

Alright here it is.

Opp is H@ns$n, who is a HU reg who I have tons of history with.

He raises on the BU actually not very much, probably about 30% of the time, but when he does he calls probably 28% of the time my threebets. He will fourbet light occasionally, but doesn't do it with AA and in general not with his good hands, most of the time its with hands like 77 which he plans on felting to a shove, sometimes it'll be complete air, especially somewhat deep, where he folds to a fivebet.
In general my image is very lagg, im threebetting very light. He knows im willing to make a big bluff.
When we are 100bb deep he tends to be raising my cbet with any pair as well as some draws and overcards. Recently, he hasn't been playing very aggressive and have called a lot more flops. I believe that he will call a flop bet and fold the turn way too much.
When he has had a good hand after calling the flop he has always raised the turn.
Although he threebets light himself, he is actually pretty passive on the turn and river. I have rarely seen him bluff on the turn or river. He isn't very capable of making big folds, and doesn't have a trend of hands he calls threebets with, it can really be any hand.
Our matches are generally crazy. He generally acts very fast.

POKERSTARS GAME #13201507299: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2007/11/12 - 17:07:13 (ET)
Table 'Aten' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($1427.50 in chips)
Seat 2: H@N$EN ($742 in chips)
H@N$EN: posts small blind $2
heybude: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [5c 2c]
H@N$EN: raises $12 to $16
heybude: raises $32 to $48
H@N$EN: calls $32
*** FLOP *** [7d Ah Th]
heybude: bets $64
H@N$EN: calls $64 (a few seconds)
*** TURN *** [7d Ah Th] [Qs]
heybude: bets $160
H@N$EN: calls $160 (about 5 seconds)
*** RIVER *** [7d Ah Th Qs] [Jh]
heybude:

Post any questions you have in this thread.

[IowaSkinsFan]

You can ask any question you want about the hand, reads, tendencies, although i wont assure ill give a good answer.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

How does he plays draws when you're deeper than 100BB? In 3-bet pots?

[IowaSkinsFan]

How does he plays draws when you're deeper than 100BB? In 3-bet pots?

I'm not quite sure, I could see him raising here and i could also see him calling.

I added timing and deadline

[Miffed22001]

can i just win?

[CoccoBill]

Has he seen you pot all streets with air?
Have you been betting draws aggressively?
How often do you cbet oop?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Has he seen you pot all streets with air?
Have you been betting draws aggressively?
How often do you cbet oop?

maybe once
Yes
85% of the time about.

[IowaSkinsFan]

ive gotten about 6 so far.

[bigspenda73]

ld0 Fold PF

[IowaSkinsFan]

ld0 Fold PF

if this isnt a joke please delete it, we shouldnt have any thoughts on the hand posted in this thread.

[bigspenda73]

to clarify, are you saying he's calling 1/4th of his BTN opening range to your 3bets, or he's opening 30% and calling a raise with nearly all of those hands

[Galapogos]

whoops

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'm saying hes opening 30% on the BU and calling almost all the threebets. I hope that was obvious to everyone, if it wasnt and u've sent your pm plz tell me and ill give you a shot to rethink it.

[Silly String]

Wow, I'm glad Spenda clarified that. I would have really had a small range the way I interpreted it originally. Thx.

[Miffed22001]

I'm saying hes opening 30% on the BU and calling almost all the threebets. I hope that was obvious to everyone, if it wasnt and u've sent your pm plz tell me and ill give you a shot to rethink it.

how much of a showdown muppet is he?

[IowaSkinsFan]

He's not a station, but he doesnt make big folds.

[noble007]

Regardless of who you select, will you still post some of the answers in this thread so we can see what other people thought, as well as your own thoughts and the results of the hand in question?

[bigspenda73]

OMG I CANNOT TAKE THE SUSPENSE!!

[IowaSkinsFan]

Alright, I just woke up from a night of massive partying and I have chosen the winners!

They are.....









Vi-Zero Skill!!!!









Bigspenda!!!!!


Congrats to both of you! Neither of you actually came to the hands down correct answer, but both of you showed potential in your reasoning.

Here's what I believe the answer is.

PF: This is a pretty obvious fold, there's no reason to threebet a hand this bad, there just isn't. If it was a timing thing and i felt like he was folding a lot this time, i'd threebet, but that clearly isn't the case. Ofc, I don't want to just nit up, I want to keep up my image but try to play as tight as possible doing so.

Flop: Pretty standard cbet since his calling range preflop is so wide and has been passive postflop, so nothing weird there.

Turn: All and all, this is probably a c/f. There's just way too many hands in his range that just improved and are calling a bet and we have 0% chance to win the pot. I could go more detailed into the range but I don't think it's necessary.

River: When he doesn't raise the turn it makes me feel strongly that he doesn't have a hand that he wants to take to sd. I strongly put him on Ax. Yes he could have KQ, and we lost, he could have KK (i think he may fold turn though idk), and we lose. I just don't see how he calls QJ and if he happens to have A7 I don't see how he calls that.

89 and fd are also a possibility but the thing is he's just going to insta call those like he always does, but this time he's taking time with his decisions, so it really doesn't look like he has it.

There's just no way he can put me on a bluff at this point, so we should shove! In general, with hands im not c/f i think a shove is much better anyways, so its not like my range here is bluffs a K's only.

Alright, spenda and VZK, PM me and we will likely get something going after thanksgiving break!

<3<3<3<3

Oh, and thanks for everyone that entered, many of you really did a good job in your analysis.

[bigspenda73]

I'd love to hear VI's response!!

[IowaSkinsFan]

VZK's response

Preflop

If H@N$EN is opening on his button fairly infrequently, then there is little value in 3betting with such a weak suited connector. Our implied odds are also going to be lower in a hand that is HU, and we aren’t going to flop a funky two pair very often. We also have little fold equity preflop as H@N$EN is calling nearly all of our 3bets after opening on the button.

Flop

The continuation bet is standard, and the sizing is fine.

H@N$EN’s range after the flop contains strong made hands (A-7s+), one pair hands (A-Q-), and draws. We can’t discount strong made hands very much from his range since he hasn’t been raising a lot of flops recently. Our range on the flop is very wide, and contains lots of air, one pair hands, gutshots, flush draws, as well as (A-7s+).

Turn

The turn isn’t that good to double barrel, since it does improve a lot of drawing hands H@N$EN may have floated us with on the flop. Given H@N$EN’s perception of us, he may figure that with a hand like K-Q he has quite a few outs the times we have a hand like A-10, and has a good bluff catching hand the times we don’t. He may also think that he can bluff us off of a two pair hand if the river is a draw completing card (i.e. Heart, Jack). I think a total blank would be best to double barrel (i.e. 5s), and if I didn’t get a total blank I would check/fold the turn.

H@N$EN’s range after the turn is actually a little weaker than it was after the flop. We can somewhat discount made hands from his range, since we were expecting him to raise us with two pair or better. A-x is still in his range because, given our willingness to make big bluffs, he may have decided he would call a river bet if the river card did not complete any draws. There are also plenty of drawing hands in his range.

Typically, given H@N$EN’s tendency to raise good hands on the turn, we would expect him to also be raising a lot of his drawing hands. However, because he took several seconds to call, it’s likely he considered a raise, then noticed the stack sizes were going to put him in an awkward spot if he raised and was shoved on, and decided to call instead.

Our range after the turn still contains strong made hands (A-7s+), combo draws, bare heart draws, A-K, as well as air.

River

The river improved all the drawing hands in H@N$EN’s range. If he had a pair and a gutshot on the turn, he improved to two pair or a straight on the river. If he had a flush draw on the turn, he improved to a flush on the river.

We have three choices on the river:

1). Lead

Our range after leading the river would contain only flushes or air. With a straight or a set, we would likely check. The only made hands I can see us turning into a bluff are A-7s/A-10.

Given our history with this opponent, it is very possible H@N$EN would call a river bet with a straight. He would probably fold a set, but he is unlikely to be holding a set anyways. We don’t fold out more than a small portion of his range by leading the river, so clearly that would be a huge mistake.

2). Check, with the intention of folding

Unfortunately, we have zero showdown value - we have the nut worst hand! However, this is a better option than leading the river.

3). Check, with the intention of raising all in

We have to consider what hands H@N$EN would bet on the river if we check to him:

- Ace-x, incorrectly reasoning that he has no showdown value and a bluff is his best option.
- Flushes.
- Effectively turning his straight into a bluff, hoping other straights will fold and he won’t have to split the pot.


The pot is 440 on the river, and the effective stacks are 470.

If H@N$EN bets close to the size of the pot, a check/raise all in would have zero fold equity because there would be almost no money behind.
If H@N$EN bets closer to half the size of the pot, a check/raise all in would have some fold equity. Even after getting check/raised all in, however, H@N$EN would be getting 7:1 odds. And knowing that he is largely incapable of making big folds, even a check/raise all in here is unlikely to succeed often enough to be profitable.



My answer: check/folding the river is our best option.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

YESSSSSSSSS

[bigspenda73]

Funny how we drew a lot of the same conclusions

My resposne:

OK, you know I wanna say fold PF but you'd never post the hand if it was that simple. I'm trying to determine why you 3tap 52s against a player defending 3bets lightly OTB.

A couple conclusions:
1. As long as he'll give up on a lot of flops or fold to a bunch of flop c/r shoves 3betting any 2 and continuing will prove to be profitable in the long run.
2. If he likes to float and we continue to 2barrell our play is now extremely profitable.
--however--
3. 3betting a polar rane against an observant opponent gets you into spots like these, where your range is sick tight on the end. It leaves you in a spot here where your bluffing frequency will be way too high for him to fold even medium-strength hands, i.e.-broadway gutters that made 2pr, or gutters that got there.

The question becomes can our final range have enough value-betting hands on this board to overcome the amount of air we will show up with? We can presume there is only 1 hand in your 3betting range that has a king and takes this line, that's AK obviously. KK/KQ most likely aren't firing the turn, therefore representing AK and AK only is difficult, ALSO, I feel we'd be much more inclined to c/c with AK here than shove, so AK seems to be a tough hand to represent if we bet on the end.

That leaves the flush draws, and the question then becomes, how often are we 2-barrelling bare flush draws. I'd presume hands like JTs,QJs are more defending hands and not 3betting hands therefore the bulk of our flush draws have zero equity unimproved on the end. Because of that I'm not sure if you would rather 2barrell, c/c the turn, or c/r it all-in. Because of board texture, it's hard to merge big hands with a c/r because you cannot afford to let the turn check behind. I also feel you may stack-a-donk with a hand like QhJh.

So, our range on the end for betting/shoving is either air or small flush draws that hit. Because of this we would need to either:

A. Overbet shove to decrease pot-odds against a call
B. Lower our bluffing frequency on the end overall

So, do we shove? The pot is $554 he doesn't even have a PSB left behind. If we are bluffing here more than 30% of the time he's forced to call, so, the question becomes how often do we bluff here? What's the right percentage of time to bluff this river? From looking at it I would say about 25% of the time we should bluff our air, so how do we choose when to and when not to? That will relate to the match flow and the most recent hands.

If we were deeper I'd say c/r'ing AI on the river would be the play.

[thizzSantaCruz]

great responses guys, i love seeeing the thinking that goes on behind other peoples play. good luck with the coaching guys :P

[metalface]

Oh man! I just saw this thread and it sucks to have missed such an opportunity. BigSpenda doesn't need coaching as far as I can tell. He's a good player so I'd like to ask him if I can take his place

[bigspenda73]

WHAT? VI plays 400nl, I only play 100nl, take his place!

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

spenda i think you made some really good observations about the hand (particularly the PF assessment) - also i realize i didn't even count up the pot right lolol.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

WHAT? VI has attempted to move up to 400nl and been knocked down twice!, I only play 100nl, take his place!

[bigspenda73]

also i realize i didn't even count up the pot right lolol.

lol ya I had to recount in a few time b/c I guess I'm not used to pots being that big.

Seriously ISF, convert ya dang hands yo

[IowaSkinsFan]

ugh i hate converting hands but yes i really should.

[bode]

damn

[bigspenda73]

so you shoved and he folded....right?

[chardrian]

Alright here it is.

Opp is H@ns$n, who is a HU reg who I have tons of history with.

He raises on the BU actually not very much, probably about 30% of the time, but when he does he calls probably 28% of the time my threebets. He will fourbet light occasionally, but doesn't do it with AA and in general not with his good hands, most of the time its with hands like 77 which he plans on felting to a shove, sometimes it'll be complete air, especially somewhat deep, where he folds to a fivebet.
In general my image is very lagg, im threebetting very light. He knows im willing to make a big bluff.
When we are 100bb deep he tends to be raising my cbet with any pair as well as some draws and overcards. Recently, he hasn't been playing very aggressive and have called a lot more flops. I believe that he will call a flop bet and fold the turn way too much.
When he has had a good hand after calling the flop he has always raised the turn.
Although he threebets light himself, he is actually pretty passive on the turn and river. I have rarely seen him bluff on the turn or river. He isn't very capable of making big folds, and doesn't have a trend of hands he calls threebets with, it can really be any hand.
Our matches are generally crazy. He generally acts very fast.

POKERSTARS GAME #13201507299: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2007/11/12 - 17:07:13 (ET)
Table 'Aten' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($1427.50 in chips)
Seat 2: H@N$EN ($742 in chips)
H@N$EN: posts small blind $2
heybude: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [5c 2c]
H@N$EN: raises $12 to $16
heybude: raises $32 to $48
H@N$EN: calls $32
*** FLOP *** [7d Ah Th]
heybude: bets $64
H@N$EN: calls $64 (a few seconds)
*** TURN *** [7d Ah Th] [Qs]
heybude: bets $160
H@N$EN: calls $160 (about 5 seconds)
*** RIVER *** [7d Ah Th Qs] [Jh]
heybude:

Post any questions you have in this thread.

Ok - I know I'm too late, but I wanna post anyways. I just found out that I'm going to have to hit the books pretty hard these next three months so I think I will probably need to be playing cashgames instead of just tourneys as time might not permit me to always play tourneys. So.... I'm gonna have to learn how to play NL cash and that means I have to stop spewing and this hand looks like a good spot to at least see what my insights are and hopefully you all can kick me in the ass and tell me why I'm so retarded. (I also haven't read any replies so sorry if I'm repeating).

To the hand:

preflop - you have stack sizes at a point where you can threebet expecting a call and know that you will often get a fold on either the flop or turn against this opp, so seems reasonable to me. Given that he doesn't raise that much preflop, and you are oop, a fold would seem fine to me as well though.

flop - after you threebet pre you sorta have to c-bet here. The bummer is that he is going to call a lot of hands with this flop texture and since he seems to be passive we won't get much info from his call (i.e. he would call with a draw as easily as he would a hand like Ax here).

turn - is a barf card. if he has a made hand on the flop it's not really going to scare him and if he had a drawy hand on the flop it likely helps him. I think I probably give up here.

river - as played your only choice is to push or check/fold. The river is a perfect scare card as it completes both the flush and straight draws and his turn call looks much more like an Ax (and probably not AK as he would have most likely raised on any of the previous streets) than anything else - especially given how long it took him to call. My problem is defining what a "big laydown" would be - I think lots of players would easily dump TP here, but for others this would be tough even given the board. If this would be tough for him here I check/fold - if he's decent enough to fold, I push (and knowing my spewy ways that's what I would likely do here).

[metalface]

WHAT? VI plays 400nl, I only play 100nl, take his place!

I was kidding

I know you're a good player from your posts so I'd like you to please give me $25NL lessons