Another combo draw where raising is bad?

[Irisheyes]

100NL, 5 handed with 100bb stacks. Complete unknown UTG raises to $3.50, I call with AT next to act and the rest of the table folds. I think pf is pretty bad but whatever.

Flop ($8.50): KQK
Villain pots it, whats my move?

[sauce123]

call, fold turn if u dont hit ur royal, ok str8 or flush will do also

[15outs]

i call and if checked to on turn i bet 1/2 pot regardless or whether i hit or not. I f he pots the turn again then i fold if i haven't improved.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i just want to emphasize that calling pre is pretty bad.

And i agree with others in this thread

[IowaSkinsFan]

God we have such crappy reverse implied odds and horrible implied odds.

[xyu]

just like in the other combo draw thread i don't get why we're calling again? i'm convinced we're screwin ourselves by trying to maximise ev against a small part of his range, and ignorin the majority.

what if he double barrels a ton of hands we could have folded on the flop with a raise? i like calling if we screw with them on the turn a lot, and i guess you guys obviously do this a lot more than i do, i generally jam flops so i hate calling because i give away too much info.

i raise pretty much any draw on the flop here, is that really bad? hopefully you guys will all start arguin about it again and i might figure it out.

[Irisheyes]

Well firstly xyu I think you are over estimating the ammount of times the villain will double barrel this turn with a hand worse that ours. Most 100NL guys are doing this pretty much never so the possibility of us getting bluffed off the best hand is slim.

Secondly you need to consider the type of ranges the villain cound have on a flop like this and out equity against them. For example he could have a paired hand like 99 or a pair of queens. We are pretty much flipping on the flop with these hands so raising and getting them to fold or call is not that great. Or he could have a hand like A8 which we are ahead of. Once again raising would make this hand fold but that would be bad because we were winning against that hand. The other hands in his range are stuff like full houses and strong trips, all the hands that he will never fold if we raise. We're actually a pretty big dog to this portion of his range and if we raised and he called/reraised with these hands that would be very bad for us.

So in conclusion, if we raise the only hands that play with us are ones that beat us badly and the only hands that fold are the ones we beat or flip with, hence raising is a bad play.

[xyu]

yeah, i don't expect too many double barrels at NL$100, for some reason i ignored that.

[sauce123]

why is calling pre so bad again?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Its 100nl and a guy raised UTG, there are still 4 people behind who possibly can reraise, we have really bad reverse implied odds.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I mean its not horrible by any means but its not something i'd do.