Is this a joke?

[wufwugy]

If not, somebody please explain to me why folding is best. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=135684

Forgive me for not just posting in that thread, but I'm not posting on 2p2 right now.

[mixchange]

well, i can see the argument for folding but with the calls in front here a call is in order. 2+2 nits are saying omg someone has something and the other guy has a FD, so you only have 6 outs. but so much monies if we hit turn like a Q we could jam for all the monies!

[noble007]

I hate to be a nit but I have to fold or raise in this spot to.

You reverse implied odds with Aj here are pretty bad, if the turn is a 7 you lose big monies to Qj if the turn is a Q you lose big monies to Kj & if no-one else has the better draw (or a j also) your unlikely to get paid off with 4 to a str on the board, also if the turn is a j you cant vbet it & it might even be a mistake to call a bet with tptk on a 89TJ board & Aces might not even be outs either.

(oh & flush draw as well obv. Qc/7c will give u some tough decisions & again would unlikely get paid off by worse with 4 to str and 3clubs on board)

[nutsinho]

this is a super standard fold

[Deanglow]

this is a super standard fold

Yes, and stacks make it easier.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

the only good player in that thread (jfish) said raise and i agree, because the bettor isn't a full stack. If the bettor was a full stack i don't really understand why this would be a fold either in position.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I raise too, but making a comment like "is this a joke" I think is pretty far off. It's pretty close to a fold.

[Galapogos]

the only good player in that thread (jfish) said raise and i agree, because the bettor isn't a full stack. If the bettor was a full stack i don't really understand why this would be a fold either in position.

Isn't PollyBaller a good player?

[IowaSkinsFan]

the only good player in that thread (jfish) said raise and i agree, because the bettor isn't a full stack. If the bettor was a full stack i don't really understand why this would be a fold either in position.

Isn't PollyBaller a good player?

Yeah he is, not as good as jfish though.

[will641]

yeah i dont understand why yould make a thread about it being a joke. he has a crappy one card draw on a two toned board w/ two people. hes most likely drawing from 3- 6 outs because of the FD.

[Marshall28]

yeah its a fold or a raise imo. calling is just throwing away the 72$ plus possibly forcing u to lose your stack. by raising u give yourself the chance to win the pot, plus get a great deal of info as to where villains are at in the hand. you do realize you could be drawing to a chop here if either villain flopped the nuts, right? ... and the other guy could be drawing to a flush meaning you could have only 3 outs to a chop ... that's worst case scenario but definitely possible on a board like this. it's also possible somebody is holding KJ, Q comes on turn ... you ready to stack off w/ your 1 card straight? lol ...

[nutsinho]

this isnt even close vs most villains. can someone try constructing some ranges for the villains whereby a shove would end up being profitable? This is a PSB and a flat call INTO the preflop raiser, so please dont put much crap like KTo into either of their ranges.

[wufwugy]

Well I called it a joke because that's my first impression of it. As described by OP, both villains are donkeys, and thus will have a wide range, and I also think our hand is easy to play vs them with our pos if we call.

I'm not thinking well right now so I cannot expound, but nonetheless this spot still confuses me.

[gabe]

the only good player in that thread (jfish) said raise and i agree, because the bettor isn't a full stack. If the bettor was a full stack i don't really understand why this would be a fold either in position.

i count a couple players better than him in that thread...

[IowaSkinsFan]

Yeah snakekilla88 and poly are good, but i think jfish is more spot on with his advice usually.

Gabe your just biased about snakekilla CAUSE YOU MADE HIM.

[Marshall28]

gabe, plz MAKE me

[Numbr2intheWorld]

what's poly_ballers 2p2 name? I didn't know who snakekilla was either. But i did read the thread earlier than you guys so maybe poly didn't post yet?

honestly i think this hand can still play out pretty favorable for AJ if you hit your straight since you're in position against two donks.

[nutsinho]

poly= captainwacky

[wufwugy]

Yea being against donks is big since their ranges become very polarized on latter streets as well as can pay off.

[wufwugy]

See my problem is that I look at this hand and I think immediately that a player like cts is not folding. The strategies he presents in his videos just don't suggest that he's folding here, and he really is one of the best players on the planet who provides us with strategic analyses. I also think that folding here is just gonna be so weak since we SHOULD be able to play our position and against our fishy/predictable opponents well enough to profit.

Just something instinctively strikes me as wrong with folding. It's hard for me to put words to it, but I was so surprised at first that I could think it was nothing other than a joke or good players being 'too smart for their own good'.

[Marshall28]

ummm ... bad players are more likely to call down w/ weaker holdings, all you have is ace high and not even a draw to the nuts. there are so many scenarios that are just not good for u here. like seriously think about the types of hands 1st villain is leading w/ and 2nd villain is flatting with. seriously, try to put them on ranges, then determine how bad they are/unable to fold if we dont improve.

i still think its a clear cut raise or fold situation, the hand just becomes too difficult to play on a lot of turns ... its a really bad reverse implied odds situation against the types of hands we are commonly going to be up against.

regardless of all this. you dont have much money invested in the pot, dont you think you can find a better spot than this against two fish?

[wufwugy]

One flop psb vs two fish ip when they both likely shutdown aggression on latter streets when they don't have it yet will pay off with worse? The only reason I see for folding here being correct is that we're often splitting when we make a straight, which may be reason enough.

Who folds when hu to flop?

[nutsinho]

One flop psb vs two fish ip when they both likely shutdown aggression on latter streets when they don't have it yet will pay off with worse? The only reason I see for folding here being correct is that we're often splitting when we make a straight, which may be reason enough.

Who folds when hu to flop?

given the action and board texture, its overwhelmingly likely at least one of them "has it" and that at least one of them will continue to "have it" on future streets. Chopping is a huge reason to fold, as is the likelihood that a couple of your straight outs don't exist. Think about it, a hand as weak as JT owns the shit out of you and won't fold ever.