2 river shove bluffs, one vs. nitgators

[mixchange]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($186.35)
Hero ($106.65)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($50.65)
BB ($102.60)
UTG ($114.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $8, 2 folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($17.50) 2, 3, 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($45.50) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $25, Hero calls $25.

River: ($95.50) J (2 players)
Hero bets $59.65 (All-In)

21/17 dont really know him, but people are so scared of the flush and most ppl at 100nl will shove it when it hits. i think he has an overpair based on his flop/ turn bet.

flop is a floatish (maybe im ahead), turn i shove any diamond or spade

i take pot with spade, i get paid a whole stack w/ diamond, maybe an ace or 8


Hand 2

brag but seriously, how often can i get away with this? whats a normal calling range here for villain

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($184.55)
BB ($31.85)
UTG ($153.40)
MP ($65.15)
Hero ($115.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $3, 2 folds.

Flop: ($7.50) , , (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($17.50) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $11, UTG raises to $34, Hero calls $23.

River: ($85.50) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $73.35 (All-In), UTG folds.

Final Pot: $85.50

FGators26 said, "quads obv"
FGators26 said, "had to be"
hero said, "pair of 7s"
FGators26 said, "that is the dumbest push ever if u did, which u didnt"




i just dont think he has the balls. i snap call turn and pause/ shove river

EDIT: forgot his "quads obv" chat line. heh

[Roel]

1) Played it good, you might get a called by an overpair here though but this makes u so hard to read. Like it.

2) b/f turn. He has any pair over 99 or a 9 he'll call u on the river. Well i would. But judging by his chat line i think he has A high here. Maybe 22. But you'll only get called by worse hands. I'd rather let him bluff and snap him off.

[IowaSkinsFan]

2nd one seems okay first one is really bad.

[silu73]

I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.

[mixchange]

1st one is bad vs. good players, but good vs. bad players at this stake imo

bad players fold when a flush card hits at this stake and my line looks like a flush to them. the backdoor draw they arent seeing. so i have tons of outs on the turn.

good players expect you to raise draws bad players dont.

[jimmy44]

I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.

Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?

[jimmy44]

I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.

Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?
I prefer a 1/2-1/3 pot bet on river, where he would call with 22-66 and maybe with A high.

[wufwugy]

hand two is vs fgators.

fgators folds way too much.

i wonder if bet/bet/shove every other hand vs him will show a profit.

[Marshall28]

1st hand is really bad. shove on river is terrible, if you were gonna shove a spade river, u shoulda crai on turn. he's not folding an overpair almost ever, not even TT. you effectively turned your hand into a bluff. river shoulda gone check/bet/fold.

2nd hand i think is just lucky, only an idiot like fgators would actually put someone on quads, lol. i think u get snapped off really often here.

[Marshall28]

either that, or it was a sick read and his "quads obv" line was meant to save his dignity cuz he had only high cards and wanted to make it "look" like he was making a "good" fold ... lol... thats actually quite a bit more likely scenario considering its fgators

[wufwugy]

naw gators prolly folded top boat

[Cocco_Bill]

the first river push is horrible no matter who you play against

[jimmy44]

naw gators prolly folded top boat

I see that PS still have some nice fishes

[pocketfours]

Nice to see some hands where I can disagree with the majority again

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.

2. I also don't know why many here like the second one so much, I hate it. What sort of moron would ever check this river with an overpair? He has ace high here like always. Bet $11 again and fistpump+call a shove.

[Muzzard]

2. I also don't know why many here like the second one so much, I hate it. What sort of moron would ever check this river with an overpair? He has ace high here like always. Bet $11 again and fistpump+call a shove.

But fgators is a moron. LOL

[Renton]

hand one just fold flop.
hand two just fold turn.


as played hand one is terrible
as played hand two is terrible, just check behind the best hand

[Marshall28]

Nice to see some hands where I can disagree with the majority again :)

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.

if showdown value is < less than 38% chance hand is good:
then i agree, but not quite sure that statement is true.

[Toadstool]

I agree with P4's here, the first one is fine, if you assume there is a good chance he will stack off if an 8/A or diamond hits? however I don;t think that he will very often as he is not betting as though he has an overpair - 25 into 45 with two flush draws and a straight draw - doesn't look as though he's protecting his hand, which is why I think shoving river si good as he won't have a good enough hand to call very often.

Hand 2 i hate, you must think you are ahead if u call turn, which i think is bad against fgators as he is such a 'nit' also you are almost never getting anyone to fold anything better than you have on that board. As he checked the river he probably has two high cards, so your best bet is to try and induce a bluff shove on the river with a really small bet of about 10-15.

[IowaSkinsFan]

1. I don't know why you hate this play? Obviously std until river and river shove only needs to take it down 38% to show profit. Marginal but not horrible. C/c is out of the question since he can easily valuebet an overpair here knowing we would always shove trips or a flush.

He'll only fold an overpair sometimes. This play wont work 50% of the time so it is bad. BUT okay, its not super horrible, just bad.

[pocketfours]

He'll only fold an overpair sometimes. This play wont work 50% of the time so it is bad. BUT okay, its not super horrible, just bad.

If it works 39% it's good. He doesn't have an overpair every time either. But ok, let's say it was 'bad'.

[Deanglow]

1) Played it good, you might get a called by an overpair here though but this makes u so hard to read. Like it.

2) b/f turn. He has any pair over 99 or a 9 he'll call u on the river. Well i would. But judging by his chat line i think he has A high here. Maybe 22. But you'll only get called by worse hands. I'd rather let him bluff and snap him off.

I don't mean to be harsh, but stop posting advice. Post some hands yourself and get acquainted with NL holdem.

Hand 1 is terrible. The only good street is the flop. On the river, instead of letting him bluff you just push and fold out all hands that might have bet the river and have him call you with everything you're losing to.

Hand 2 check the turn and fold river if he bets

[ZwiFT]

Wow man, hand one is really terrible, has he been 3bet/min 3bet/ you light? Vs some players its best to fold this preflop. And yeah as played i either c/f or c/r. I will be more inclined to c/f vs a player that doesnt cbet alot, but i guess this guy would cbet IP a 3bet PF flop 100% of the time.

[Roel]

Wow. Ok so i am reasonably new here but i play this game and these levels for a few years now. And i post 'advice' to get feedback as well.

I don't post to 'teach' other players, i read and post to try to learn the game. I really thought (and still not entirely convinced otherwise) that the first hand was played well. Against a player that puts u on a spade draw, you essentially have 20 'outs' (disregarding the 8's, and the fact that he may be on a draw), and any spade, diamond, ace or 8 will put him in a tough spot on the river. That is why i like it.

But anybody please don't follow my advice blindly here or in any other post. As i don't follow anybody else's blindly. We are here to learn, right?

Don't mean to snap off your reaction to my post but if more of u guys agree i should just read and not post this 'advice' please tell me and i'll stop.

[griffey24]

Hand 1 - This depends on your image. I can't pull this off cause I'm gonna get snapped off here, but if your image is good I think it's good.

Hand 2- I really don't like this. I don't think you bluffed him here, I think in this hand (and whenever he folds) you actually have the best hand. Just check it through.

[minSim]

hand one just fold flop.

Hand 1 is terrible. The only good street is the flop. On the river, instead of letting him bluff you just push and fold out all hands that might have bet the river and have him call you with everything you're losing to.

Preflop is standard right on hand 1?
On the flop I actually don't see any other line than c/c...what's wrong with it Renton?
So to me, preflop and flop are standard. As played being on this turn, what's our best option?
I agree c/f or maybe c/c on river.

Hand 2, I'd check behind turn and call river bet or bet river myself.

[EzDuzIt]

why are you turning hand 1 into a bluff? better hands arent folding and you have a decent bluff catcher if he is aggro enough,

[nutsinho]

i agree with pocketfours. let me reiterate how terrible #2 is, and im curious why anyone would think it is good even against a folding station. #1 is certainly decent at worst though.

[will641]

im curious in #1 if you were planning on shoving the river here when you made the turn call. if so i like a check/shove on the turn a lot better than c/c and then shove.

[Toadstool]

C/Shove the turn is far worse than call turn shove river spade/diamond/8/A as you are getting called almost all the time by an overpair, whereas you have decent fold equity the way you played it, to villain surely this line must look like a flush a high% of the time

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think you really need to have played with fgators to get hand 2. I'm pretty sure he folds KK here, and even plays it this way. Fold turn though.

[griffey24]

I think you really need to have played with fgators to get hand 2. I'm pretty sure he folds KK here, and even plays it this way. Fold turn though.

I've never played him.. but come onnn.. how can a reg ever be THATTTT nitty to fold KK here? lol

Hero's line looks exactly like a midpair, and given preflop hero rarely rarely ever has a 4 here. Pretty brutal if this guy is folding overpairs here.

[mixchange]

im curious in #1 if you were planning on shoving the river here when you made the turn call. if so i like a check/shove on the turn a lot better than c/c and then shove.

I take pot with spade, i get paid a whole stack w/ diamond, ace, 8

otherwise I give up.

#1 is like so horrible if i don't have it here that it works. People just think, what else can he have except the flush? at this stake people don't call all ins light. a lot of people commenting here I don't think are remembering what 100nl is like. At higher stakes the line makes 0 sense but I think it makes a lot of sense at 100nl.

Hand #2 I intended really 2 comments
a) what is your calling range here
b) what is fgators calling range here. hahahahah


pocketfours, do you know the fagator saga? he loses all his money by foldz. apply pressure is the recipe on him, different animal than a std player. hyper nit

[Marshall28]

griffey:

reference to fgators play:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...gators+clayton

[silu73]

I don't like Hand 1 neither. I hope you don't play your flush draws this way so I can't see it work as a bluff often enough.

Hand 2 is good. Especially against a player where you have a good read.

Can you ever see any player folding 9x or TT+ on the river here?

fgators would. He has A-high here often enough but knowing him he would fold 9x or TT heck even JJ.

[nutsinho]

fgators isnt bad enough to fold jj+ in that hand, theres no way any sane human being would think that it is a good idea to c/f river with those hands