T8o vs TAG

[Juked07]

I was getting tired of bleeding blinds at a relatively tight table, so I decided to open a hand for a change. I'm positive that my preflop raise was just stupid, but could I have gotten away from what happened after? Should I have shoved that flop? Folded?

I'm not really sure how to convert hands, but I'm Juked07. I've been halfstacking since I read some article by Fnord and tried it out and it's been working pretty well.

PokerStars Game #16940838847: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/04/23 - 15:17:22 (ET)
Table 'Sirene' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Schultix ($83.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Juked07 ($50 in chips)
Seat 3: Parliament81 ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: hoopin247 ($123.35 in chips)
Seat 5: trimreaper99 ($84.45 in chips)
Seat 6: abd0308 ($72.65 in chips)
abd0308: posts small blind $0.50
Schultix: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Juked07 [Tc 8d]
Juked07: raises $3 to $4
Parliament81: folds
hoopin247: folds
trimreaper99: calls $4
abd0308: folds
Schultix: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 6s 8c]
Juked07: bets $6
trimreaper99: raises $9 to $15
Juked07: calls $9
*** TURN *** [8s 6s 8c] [9d]
Juked07: bets $31 and is all-in
trimreaper99: calls $31
*** RIVER *** [8s 6s 8c 9d] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Juked07: shows [Tc 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)
trimreaper99: shows [9h 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Eights)
trimreaper99 collected $98.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $101.50 | Rake $3
Board [8s 6s 8c 9d 2h]
Seat 1: Schultix (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Juked07 showed [Tc 8d] and lost with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 3: Parliament81 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: hoopin247 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: trimreaper99 (button) showed [9h 9c] and won ($98.50) with a full house, Nines full of Eights
Seat 6: abd0308 (small blind) folded before Flop

[Silly String]

First you shouldn't ever "open up" with a 1/2 stack. You don't have the implied odds to get paid off when you hit a flop. Next you need to understand/respect "position". You should only be playing drawing hands from in position.
In other words, you shouldn't be playing T8o in EP as a half stack ever, but you know that now.

That said, if you ever find yourself in this position(short stacked w/ trips) you should be getting your chips in the middle as fast as possible after this flop.

This isn't meant as personal slam, but I would definitely play at lower limits until you grasp some key concepts that this HH shows you are lacking.

[Juked07]

I totally understand what you're saying.. I guess I should give some more background info. The table was getting very nitty, and I had not seen a flop in about 3 orbits, so I figured I should have the image to buy the blinds with a bet from the CO enough of the time or if not at least create a less nitty image for myself.

Granted, this does not justify opening T8o as a half stack, but I was at least thinking about the decision when I did it. I just wanted to make sure getting it in was right after I did happen to hit..

As for the stakes I'm playing at... the only reason I am playing there is because I think it makes sense for my bankroll. I bought in at $50 over two months ago, and played 0.10/0.25 until about 300 dollars and then played 0.25/0.50 until about 1000, half stacking the whole way.

At 1000 dollars, that puts me at 40 buy ins for 0.25/0.50 and 20 buy ins for 0.50/1.00.

Hopefully it's clear that the T8o open is not indicative of my normal play, but rather something I did because I had folded the last 18-20 hands.

[Galapogos]

Pre-flops bad, even for a nitty table but yeah you know that. Get the money in on the flop. It's drawy and you're likely to get looked up somewhat light as you're halfstacked and I'm sure it's hard for him to put an 8 in your UTG opening range.

[Silly String]

Hopefully it's clear that the T8o open is not indicative of my normal play, but rather something I did because I had folded the last 18-20 hands.

I am not trying to be a jerk. Actually I am trying to help you. You have some serious holes in your game if you don't understand what to do on that flop. I don't think you understand position, implied odds, relative hand strength, or putting people on ranges very well. I would play lower limits until I felt I understood the basic theory of the game a little better.
I have no problem with half stacking, but be careful with only 20 buyins. Be willing to move down if you hit a big downswing.

If you say that isn't standard preflop play, you should work on when to make a non-standard play. Or work on your patience. If you are going to raise to steal, please do so in late position. Most people on PStars aren't paying much if any attention to your last 20 hands, they are watching your HUD stats. If you must steal, do so in late position. You certainly aren't raising T8o for value anywhere.

I really do intend for this to help, not to put you down.

[Ash256]

You need 30 buyins if you're halfstacking.

[Juked07]

Thanks Silly String for the criticism. If I do hit a big downswing I will definitely take your advice. I never really thought I was playing particularly well, but so many fish kept paying me off that my bankroll grew to the point where I thought it didn't make sense not to move up. I generally try to make very standard plays, but occasionally try to mix it up in non standard conditions like not having played a hand for a very long time. After thinking about the hand and hearing your advice, I'm 100,000% sure the pf raise was a poor one. I guess I was being too results oriented in my doubt for staying in with trips. It's an obvious play and I was simply letting emotions ruin my thinking. I'll watch it in the future.

As for having 30 buy ins.. I was not aware of this guideline. Is there a thread somewhere where there is information about bankroll management for various strategies (like halfstacking)?

[DonkeyDonk]

You should only be playing drawing hands from in position.

Players at all levels complete sc's in the small blind often. Also poker is a situational game not necessarily just your card holding should determine when to play. Playing a non coventional hand from an early position from time to time is fine to mix things up, maintain your image and bring an element of suprise when you hit the flop well.

The call on the flop in this case is fine also. The possible straight draws 57, 79 are unlikely. He will more likely call your flop bet with these than raise likewise the flush draw. The only thing hes's likely to raise with is an over pair. He's not likely to be holding an 8 with a bigger kicker is he so the only hand that beats you is 66 and again hes more likely to call.
Reraising his raise will give away that your holding an 8, a full house or an overpair which tells the villain he is beat.

You cant fold fearing he holds the only hand that could possibly beat you. You have to put him on an over pair which gives him 2 outs to beat you 1 in 12 times and means extraction is the best play for you. The fact that a 9 fills him up on the turn is just unfortunate.

[Ash256]

As for having 30 buy ins.. I was not aware of this guideline. Is there a thread somewhere where there is information about bankroll management for various strategies (like halfstacking)?

To be honest it's a "guideline" that I pulled out of my arse.

Of course the general idea with bankroll is to go with whatever you're comfortable, but it's worth noting that:-

a) A good TAG playing 100BB deep will easily experience 10 buyin downswings, hence 20 buyins minimum
b) Halfstacking is higher variance

Which is how I came out with 30 buyins.

[Silly String]

I had a 19 BI swing last month alone. I recommend being ready to move back down stakes fluidly if you are going to run w/ less than 30 BI. Running on a shorter bankroll takes more discipline than a deeper bankroll where your stakes stay the same.

[Hawk]

Playing a non coventional hand from an early position from time to time is fine to mix things up, maintain your image and bring an element of suprise when you hit the flop well if you know how to play those hands oop postflop.

FYP

[will641]

since your oop i just 3bet shove flop. doesnt really make a difference.

heres a link to the converter. there is also a link on the left side of the screen under Poker Tools. you cant use the converter until you have 10 posts though i think.

http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php