100NL: SB vs BB: overpair and 150 deep

[jimmy44]

villain was 23/20/4 (200 hands)
I decided to trap with KK here.
I believe that villain will call with dominated hands here such as TT/QQ and maybe 99 as I'm representing a FD.
Any comments? We could of course call flop as we have the K of spades we're not too worry on a third spade, but what would be our plan on turn? bet a non spade turn & a spade turn aswell? or c/c?

Seat 1: BB ($162.70 in chips)
Seat 7: Hero [ KD,KS ] ($155.35 in chips)

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1.00
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with K K
BU folds, Hero raises to $3.5, BB raises to $12, Hero calls.

Flop: 5 2 7 ($24.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $20, Hero raises all-in $142.35, BB calls.

Turn: 8 ($308.95, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $308.95)


River: 9 ($308.95, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $308.95)


Results:
Final pot: $308.95

[Da GOAT]

fine imo

[minSim]

If you want to call preflop then definately raise flop.
But you are too deep for a push imo.

I 4-bet more often than not and will throw in some 4-bet bluffs if you feel it get's too much respect.
I call sometimes, but rarely oop.

[jimmy44]

Something I missed was that I was being pretty aggro if folded to me from SB. Concerning the push, I felt that such a push would be called by a lot of hands.
That said, maybe a 4bet was better due to the first sentence I mentioned ... and indeed we are OOP.

[c-luvin]

nothing wrong with flatting pre, i like a c/r flop but a shove looks too strong, just make it like 75 and call a shove/shove any turn. you could even make it a little less because the only hands that are calling you anyways (that you beat) are smaller pairs and they have 2 outs or a flush draw which is already commited to the pot if it calls any raise at all.

[dalecooper]

I don't hate a push at all. It reps draws and small overpairs like 88 and 99, and therefore gets called pretty often by TT+... especially if you have an aggressive table image. It's an overbet by normal standards but in this situation I think he gets called quite often by worse hands.

[c-luvin]

people do this with small overpairs?
90% of the time i see the call 3 bet and c/bomb flop it is AA/KK or a flopped set.

[d0zer]

I like overshoves when you've been aggro recently and your opponents aren't multi-tabling to the point where they're likely to have have noticed your aggression (or you've been aggressive recently to them directly).

Many villains love to talk themselves into a hero call when you've been bullying around the table prior to the hand, and you come over with an overshove...

nh

[jimmy44]

I like overshoves when you've been aggro recently and your opponents aren't multi-tabling to the point where they're likely to have have noticed your aggression (or you've been aggressive recently to them directly).

Many villains love to talk themselves into a hero call when you've been bullying around the table prior to the hand, and you come over with an overshove...

nh

That's exactly the reason I did it!

[dalecooper]

people do this with small overpairs?
90% of the time i see the call 3 bet and c/bomb flop it is AA/KK or a flopped set.

On this board could easily be two big spades (AK, AQ, KQ, AJ) - or 8s 9s/6s 8s/3s 4s - though only a LAgg would make the preflop call with the latter two hands, so maybe we can discount those as somewhat improbable. But bear in mind the situation - they are 3-handed and hero says he's been aggressive on the SB when the button folds. Ergo, BB may 3-bet a lot lighter (and certainly any pair TT+); ergo, he may believe that hero's preflop call is just stubbornness with a so-so hand, or an attempt to blow him out of the pot post-flop. There's a lot going on here other than just a typical raise/3-bet-then check/bomb flop scenario. If this was a full table, not a blind war, and between two typical regs with no history, I'd agree with you that hero's line shows a lot more strength. But in this situation I think draws and smaller overpairs make up a beefy chunk of hero's range, and if it was me playing it, I'd probably talk myself into a call with TT or better. And I don't even like making hero calls.

[c-luvin]

i keep typing paragraphs but i think what im trying to say is

we should make a smaller raise and let him hang himself with a pp or big spades rather than trying to make him make a hero call because those are less likely at 100nl than someone stacking off to a std raise.

dale is definately see what your saying with the whole 3 handed thing and youve made me 50/50 for shove or raise, but i still think theres something to be said for a small raise here

[dalecooper]

To me the question is not if he's less likely to call a push (I assume he is, even though he's likely to be very suspicious - hell, sometimes he'll just have overs and he's obviously not calling with that). Rather, it's which move plays out to make the most in the long run. That's where you have to start making guesses about how often he calls a push and how often he calls or raises a smaller CR; and also how often he stacks off on later streets, if we make a smaller raise on the flop and he just calls it. It's a complicated equation. You can go Sklansky on it and start assigning numbers pulled out of the ether (and really, there's no other way to come to a conclusion). I'll just say that my gut instinct is that both are similarly profitable, and he calls the push enough (and folds to a smaller raise enough) that it may be a wash. If your table image is super aggro, I'd lean toward pushing; if your table image is more standard, I'd lean toward a regular raise.