over pair, drawy board, unknown.

[will641]

villain is unknown.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($245.15)
BB ($190)
UTG ($159.55)
MP ($408.10)
CO ($200)
Hero ($541.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q.
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, UTG calls $6.

Flop: ($19) 8, 6, T (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $14, UTG raises to $32, Hero calls $18.

Turn: ($83) 4 (2 players)
UTG bets $60, Hero....

[jimmy44]

His 80BB shows that he might be a donk. However, we have no reads.
This line is so "set" like. The flop is very drawy. You're flipping against Axdd and behind AdKd. You are really only ahead of JJ and stupidly played AT/JT or 99
I think:
FLOP: fold > call
TURN: easy fold

[Numbr2intheWorld]

shove flop wat...

[EzDuzIt]

His 80BB shows that he might be a donk. However, we have no reads.
This line is so "set" like. The flop is very drawy. You're flipping against Axdd and behind AdKd. You are really only ahead of JJ and stupidly played AT/JT or 99
I think:
FLOP: fold > call
TURN: easy fold

what?

try to get money in on flop. obv get it in on turn.

[will641]

shove flop wat...

can you explain why you would shove the flop? its a drawy board and there are only a few hands better than mine, but so much of his range wont call a shove, so i really dont see the point. is a basic strat we want to incorporate vs unknown to get it in as early as possible with nut hands? since we dont know if like, he likes to c/r and lead turn with draw, etc.

[thizzSantaCruz]

You beat a ton of draws which make up the majority of his range here. By shoving he doesn't get to see a free card. Shove. The only hand he has here that beats you is probably 66 or T8.

[thizzSantaCruz]

You beat a ton of draws which make up the majority of his range here. By shoving he doesn't get to see a free card. Shove. The only hand he has here that beats you is probably 66 or T8.

[mixchange]

shove flop wat...

Why are we shoving flop to a limp caller that usually means a set?

[EzDuzIt]

a set is a small part of his range.

[d0zer]

shove flop wat...

try to get money in on flop. obv get it in on turn.

a set is a small part of his range.

f'n love it.

*checks stack size*

f'n love it even more.

[holdin2]

I'm not good, so someone will have to explain it more to convince me a flop shove is good. I'll check raise a flop like this with a set sometimes and get overpairs to think I"m pushing them off with a 10 or draw. Two pair could definitely play flop this way and would throw out that turn bet. There's multiple draws out and a made hand wouldn't want hero to check behind.

I tried pokerstoving the flop...and you would have to discount all hands that beat you, just to be even odds getting it all in. I plugged in the likeliest flush draws, a few straight draws....it must lie in the fold equity making up for the times they do have the hand. I guess if you throw in JJ,99,77 you get a slight edge, throw 79s back in and it evens out again.

I'm just trying to learn.

[jimmy44]

His 80BB shows that he might be a donk. However, we have no reads.
This line is so "set" like. The flop is very drawy. You're flipping against Axdd and behind AdKd. You are really only ahead of JJ and stupidly played AT/JT or 99
I think:
FLOP: fold > call
TURN: easy fold

what?

try to get money in on flop. obv get it in on turn.

I may be way off here (I'm mostly a FR player and I'm starting to play 6max), but here's some pokerstove:

75,240 games 0.001 secs 75,240,000 games/sec

Board: 8d 6h Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.352% 38.32% 01.03% 28831 777.50 { QcQh }
Hand 1: 60.648% 59.61% 01.03% 44854 777.50 { 88+, 66, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, Ad9d, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, J9s, 97s, J9o, 97o }

As we don't have any read on villain, I guess we should fold this. Why not putting our stack in if we know something about our villain or we have good equity?

[Alexos]

stack sizes makes it easy to raise/get it in on flop

[JL]

Jimmy, your range is way too narrow.

You don't have any tens in your range. He could be doing this with T8s+, T9o+.

Also, random pair + str8 draw hands like 98, 87, 76.

And you can remove 88+, AdJd+ from your range because almost everyone raises these.

[nutsinho]

Jimmy, your range is way too narrow.

You don't have any tens in your range. He could be doing this with T8s+, T9o+.

Also, random pair + str8 draw hands like 98, 87, 76.

And you can remove 88+, AdJd+ from your range because almost everyone raises these.

full ring is a drastically different game

[Genitruc]

we have best hand about 80% of time on flop and if we shove he can put us on a draw

shove flop

[jimmy44]

Jimmy, your range is way too narrow.

You don't have any tens in your range. He could be doing this with T8s+, T9o+.

Also, random pair + str8 draw hands like 98, 87, 76.

And you can remove 88+, AdJd+ from your range because almost everyone raises these.

Thanks mate!
You are right I forgot the Ts & some str8 draw hands, but most important I think is:

And you can remove 88+, AdJd+ from your range because almost everyone raises these.

After pokerstoving this, it shows about 50%.

[EzDuzIt]

well it would be better than 50%, but even if it was 50% we would want to get it in on the flop with lots of money in already and not to let draws just see free cards.

[holdin2]

Ok, guess I didn't include any Pair+draw combos into my pokerstove either. So do we err on the side of wider range when it's an unknown on the flop? Or does this board texture plus opponent bet lend itself towards that range barring goods reads?

How much would the line differ if he was full stacked?

Anyway...so looks like the consensus would be
Flop: Push > Raise > Fold > Call
Turn: As played, Fold

Si?

Good post Will.

[nutsinho]

as played fold? that is absurd. and folding isnt better than calling the flop.

[holdin2]

as played fold? that is absurd. and folding isnt better than calling the flop.

Sorry, just recaping responses I thought I saw...missed a couple turn advice posts.

But yeah, that 4h doesn't change where we thought we were on the flop really, and since we called opponent could be betting that way with same range.

So if you did call, what cards do you shove on? Non-diamond 2-5, Q, K? Anything else?

[meeloche]

Life is much easier if we get it in on the flop.

If you think his shove calling range is tight on the flop than getting it in on the turn when hes shove calling range is even tighter isn't very intelligent imo.