AA shoving good or bad?

[seven-deuce]

Here's a hand that happened just before the hand in question.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($2.73)
Button ($11.55)
Hero (SB) ($13.47)
BB ($8.85)
UTG ($11.91)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
2 folds, Button bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, 1 fold, Button raises to $2.40, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.90 | Rake: $0

Villain 4bet folds to me here think he was trying to 4bet bluff or something leads me to believe he was spewy/bad/aggro but i'd be interested to hear what info you'd take from this hand.

Here's the main hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.56)
Button ($10.52)
Hero (SB) ($18.70)
BB ($11.80)
UTG ($6.71)
MP ($10.61)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
3 folds, Button bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, 1 fold, Button calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.90) 6, 3, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, Button raises to $2.90, Hero raises to $17.80 (All-In), Button calls $6.72 (All-In)

Turn: ($21.14) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($21.14) K (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $21.14 | Rake: $0.95

Villain was 16/10 over 68 hands.

I personally thought this guy was reall aggro after the first hand, also i fully expected him to playback at me IP with less than the nuts after 4bet folding to me so when i shove playing 100bb deep i don't think it narrows his calling range to just sets. Although i'd be interested to here your opinions on this.

I thought his flatting range would contain a lotta PP's and maybe some broadways KQs etc. I think he would re raise here on a FD tiny part of his range i know JQ KQ KJ of spades only 3 combos but i still think he'd do it with these hands also pretty much any overpair. My logic was if hes playing back with air im gonna get a shit load of folds, plus he could call with worse 99-QQ possibly FD.

What you guys think?

[OngBonga]

First hand your 5bet is huge relative to stacks, you can raise smaller, enticing calls from a wider range, and still shove flop easily, getting calls from lots of worse hands. I'd make it around $5.50.

Second hand I thought was spew but looking at his stack size it's standard. I doubt he folds 77+ after the previous AA hand.

4bet/fold pre flop should indicate this guy either has big pf bluffs in him or he can find a fold with AQ/AK/QQ, which should suggest either way that this player is not an idiot. Bad players don't tend to 4bet bluff because 3bets are so scary to them, and bad players don't ever fold AK/QQ pre flop. So don't assume this guy is bad when he 4bet/folds pre, on the contrary consider him dangerous.

[seven-deuce]

First hand your 5bet is huge relative to stacks, you can raise smaller, enticing calls from a wider range, and still shove flop easily, getting calls from lots of worse hands. I'd make it around $5.50.

Second hand I thought was spew but looking at his stack size it's standard. I doubt he folds 77+ after the previous AA hand.

4bet/fold pre flop should indicate this guy either has big pf bluffs in him or he can find a fold with AQ/AK/QQ, which should suggest either way that this player is not an idiot. Bad players don't tend to 4bet bluff because 3bets are so scary to them, and bad players don't ever fold AK/QQ pre flop. So don't assume this guy is bad when he 4bet/folds pre, on the contrary consider him dangerous.

I actually agree with everything you have said, very good analysis.

[The Bean Counter]

Looks like you've started a reg war, which is always fun.

I 4bet bluff sometimes at 10nl in this situation against habitual blind 3 bettors and also 4bet a wider range for value against them too as they all shit their pants. Clearly I'm not the best player about, but what the 4bet/f does tell you is that villain is using his hud (assuming you 3bet often from the blinds) and adjusting to you, all of which indicates at least some form of competency.

Hand one: The fact you don't 5bet shove screams aces. Sometimes flatting the 4bet pre works if villain cbets in all 3 or 4bet pots and you know villain can make a laydown pre - it's not textbook poker but it does the job (you just need to be aware that villain WILL remember this!).

Hand two: I'm getting it in too. Pretty shitty if he has a set, but expect to see big pairs often enough, particularly given history.

[kmind]

I don't see the merits in raising to $7 in the first hand just go all-in. Also, this doesn't mean he's aggro and bad.

Second hand is fine. Trying to decide between calling and c/rai turn or just using your line on the flop. Either is fine. With a tad "history" like you have I'd 3bet flop as well. But shoving all-in preflop in the first hand might help make your line look fishier in hand 2.

[Icanhastreebet]

Why would we 5b any smaller then a shove in the first hand? The only merits to 5bing smaller is to get a wide range to call which we don't accomplish considering villains 4b/call range is never wide anyway.

[OngBonga]

Why would we 5b any smaller then a shove in the first hand? The only merits to 5bing smaller is to get a wide range to call which we don't accomplish considering villains 4b/call range is never wide anyway.

Well it's wide enough that's he's 4bet/folding. Does he see a flop at $5.50? If he does, well $5.50 > shove, surely?

*edit - I already know where my thought process is flawed here... say he calls AK to both $5.50 and shove... well if he sees a flop and misses he folds so we fail to win his whole stack. Obv not as simple as just "well he folded to 4bet".

[rpm]

hand 1 3b bigger and just shove over his 4b. hand 2 3b bigger, i don't have a problem with flop play

[Arjonius]

Hand 2 I'd make it somewhat more pre- since I'm OOP. And it's hard to see not getting it in on the flop. 16/10 suggests he might have limped with any PP that flopped a set, so while it's still possible, the probability is lower than it would be against a different type of opponent. It seems more likely he has an overpair than a set.

[postiga]

In first hand 5bet of 4,5 - 5
In second hand in much more difficult because in BTN he could have a lot of things

[Arjonius]

In second hand in much more difficult because in BTN he could have a lot of things

He's 16/10 overall, so even widening his range because he's on the button, it's still not that wide. Plus he limps over 1/3 of the hands he plays, so while he's probably raising some middle pairs from the button that he'd limp or fold from earlier seats, he's still quite likely to limp the small pairs that would flop sets. So, the fact he didn't limp lowers the probability that he has a set.

[kickass]

Where did you get this limp shit from? I don't think a 16/10 is gonna be open limping very often at all. Esp not on the button.

[Icanhastreebet]

Where did you get this limp shit from? I don't think a 16/10 is gonna be open limping very often at all. Esp not on the button.

Yeah you can easily get to 16/10 and never be open limping, you probably wouldn't have to be limping behind much if at all either.