Q9o, omg i limped a sb

[Da GOAT]

22/17 opp 44% A%.

I limp probably more than most but still its very rare. i usually do it to kinda get a feel for bb plus when ive a hand i wanna play a small pot with.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ace662 ($272.95)
UTG+1 Silkepigen ($47.25)
CO bosshogg1 ($101.18)
BTN gladefan ($218.63)
SB Hero ($221.10)
BB Tinty1 ($284.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is SB
4 folds, Hero calls $1, Tinty1 checks

Flop: ($4, 2 players)
Hero bets $3, Tinty1 calls $3

Turn: ($10, 2 players)
Hero checks, Tinty1 bets $8, Hero calls $8

River: ($26, 2 players)
Hero checks, Tinty1 bets $19, $19 to Hero ($208.1)?

[bigspenda73]

THREADS

[Silly String]

Since he's in the BB I'm not a big fan of the call down.
I b/f turn, but if you c/c turn, river must be a c/f. He doesn't look real bluffy from stats read.

Also if you really want to play a small pot and find out where your hand is, donk lead flop for $1. Get him for more on the turn after he defines his hand better.

[silu73]

I fold river for sure.

[Fnord]

Ni Han, now fold the river.

[nutsinho]

betting the flop is absolutely terrible

[Da GOAT]

betting the flop is absolutely terrible

just based on what hands he will call with i guess, right? better to let him take a stab.

[nutsinho]

yeah the only value your hand has vs a calling range is that your kicker plays vs Q-rag. unfortunately, it often wont by the river. the majority of players will at least take a small stab when checked to here and your hand doesn't have 3 streets of value, so all signs point to checking the flop.
You shouldnt be worried about getting outdrawn because your opponent has 0-3 outs when behind, and more often 0 because he did not raise preflop. He's more likely to hit some lower pair that will allow you to get more value later in the hand.

[Da GOAT]

cool thanks, checking flop i guess seems pretty obvious.

ok results, i called figuring his range is either an 8 or nothing and it was BvB. he had T2o

[nutsinho]

lol

[fumblewumble]

I would lead all the way and fold to reraises if I'd limped in here. Most of the time I wouldn't play this hand anyhow without a raise from SB to either steal or see what he was like ly to call with.

[Fnord]

betting the flop is absolutely terrible

We're expected to bluff this flop, so it makes for a nice bear trap.

[Fnord]

ok results, i called figuring his range is either an 8 or nothing and it was BvB. he had T2o

Ax fits, although most TAgg-muppets raise those.

[griffey24]

betting the flop is absolutely terrible

betting this flop is..... standard?

I bet this flop probably like 80%. You're gonna get called by worse Q's (as better one's might have raised pre) and a lot of insiders will call as well.

I won't deny that you lose a bet sometimes from the times he bluffs, but I don't think he'll go on a crazy multi-street bluff here once check/called.

I guess I can't really speak too much to this kind of spot though as I'm usually raising PF and then betting as opposed to limp/betting.

[Fnord]

I don't think he'll go on a crazy multi-street bluff here once check/called.

Because we're repping a hand without an 8 that has showdown value to anyone with a clue about how to read a hand.

[griffey24]

I don't think he'll go on a crazy multi-street bluff here once check/called.

Because we're repping a hand without an 8 that has showdown value to anyone with a clue about how to read a hand.

But if nutsinho thinks betting a Q here is terrible, then certainly betting 8x here would be terrible for the same reasons?

I'm not saying its terrible, I'm just saying that if people agree with that logic then lots of ppl would be c/c 8x here as well.

[nutsinho]

yeah betting an 8 must be terrible also because now your hand can withstand 3 streets of betting and your opponent is 50% more likely to actually have Qx and 50% less likely to have 8x. :rolls eyes:
You can't be worried about the effects polarizing your leading range in a spot like this because uhh, its a sb vs bb limped pot on a super dry flop. how often do you get to this spot when both you and bb are thinking aggro players? I think people who like leading Q9 here are thinking along the lines of if this was a raised pot where bb called. His range is now filled with hands that want to/are able to peel this flop. In a 2bb pot where ur opponent has 2 undercards with no draw like 2/3 of the time, yet you are sometimes way behind, betting is really silly.

[Fnord]

Against aggro players who know that they shouldn't play tight from the BB (and aren't playing too many tables to play correctly) you should be open completing from the SB a lot.

I think an ideal spot for this HU with backwards blinds (BB acts last on every street) is something like:
20%ish fold
50%ish complete
20%ish raise

The reason I open raise so much in this spot is that most of my opponents have no HU experience and many are pushing their multi-table capacity so it's not worth it for them to play out this spot against me.

[badgers]

Against aggro players who know that they shouldn't play tight from the BB (and aren't playing too many tables to play correctly) you should be open completing from the SB a lot.

Um wow this is really not something I had ever thought. I have never done this because an aggro player is going to be raising at least 50% of hands probably more (I'm close to 100% in these spots until I have reason to adjust ie. I get limp/raised). I have always thought that if you want to get into a spot OOP BVB against an aggro player then you should have a hand good enough to raise with and then we can just cbet a lot of flops. I don't really want to get position-owned a lot in these spots by l/cing marginal hands and I don't want to limp/fold so I always raise.

Idk fnord what am I thinking wrong here?

[Fnord]

How does being the guy putting in the money light (OOP) prevent you from getting position owned?

[griffey24]

yeah betting an 8 must be terrible also because now your hand can withstand 3 streets of betting and your opponent is 50% more likely to actually have Qx and 50% less likely to have 8x. :rolls eyes:
You can't be worried about the effects polarizing your leading range in a spot like this because uhh, its a sb vs bb limped pot on a super dry flop. how often do you get to this spot when both you and bb are thinking aggro players? I think people who like leading Q9 here are thinking along the lines of if this was a raised pot where bb called. His range is now filled with hands that want to/are able to peel this flop. In a 2bb pot where ur opponent has 2 undercards with no draw like 2/3 of the time, yet you are sometimes way behind, betting is really silly.

lol at eye-rolling

I definitely agree that balance is whatever in this spot since it so rarely comes up for most ppl limping in SB.

I'm just saying, IF I were to ever check Q9 here or something. It wouldn't be for pot control at all, but it would simply be to get worse hands to put in a bet. In this kind of spot with 8x, I actually don't mind checking for similar reasons as well. Especially in the case of 8x cause we don't mind if villain catches up a bit to second best.

[Renton]

how is river not a call?

[Galapogos]

how is river not a call?

I was wondering this too. As Fnord noted, TAggs muppet raise those when their BB is limped into, and it's a sweet bluff card. Plus, if he does have a Q with a strong kicker, this likely saved us. Is it just everyone's so sure he has an 8?

[AnTman_69]

I would definitely fold river.

Are regs trying to steal/bluff in small pots like this at 1/2?

[jimmy44]

I had a very similar situation (I raised Pre, c-betted and c/c turn & river) happening to me yesterday except that I had a better kicker. Villain also showed trash.
My experience is that against aware TAGs (that can bluff) or maybe LAGs taking these lines (now and then) is +EV.

[Fnord]

Are regs trying to steal/bluff in small pots like this at 1/2?

Anything that isn't nailed down.