Good 4bet spot?

[GatorJH]

villain had a 25% 3bet through 25 hands. Do you 4bet here and if so how much?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($101.50)
Hero (Button) ($98.15)
SB ($429.55)
BB ($143)
UTG ($100)
MP ($268.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2, 2
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $3.50, BB raises to $18, Hero ????

[bigspenda73]

what is "I should find a new table" Alex

also, if you 4bet I believe it has to be a shove

[GatorJH]

that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?

[kmind]

*Post below

[kmind]

that's a pretty hefty 4bet there Mr. Suspenders. Would you 4bet shove here?

Oh I missed crucial stack sizes. But I mean what size can you 4bet here without it being all-in. Really silly to 4bet any size less than an all-in.

[GatorJH]

since I am certainly not set hunting then yes as a bluff

[kmind]

But you are playing for stacks here with a hand like 22. With a hand like A4o we have blockers and less equity than 22 IIRC. But I mean I don't think we can really 4bet/fold much given stacks + pot.

[GatorJH]

so 100BB's deep this is either a shove or fold against a villain who has 3bet 25% of his hands over a short sample size?

Just out of curiosity what hands, if any, would you 4bet against the villain?

[GatorJH]

btw, I agree that A4s is a better hand than 22 here.

[bigspenda73]

also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad

[bigspenda73]

When he makes it 18 you cannot 4bet and fold b/c of pot-odds+your equity against his 5bet jamming range. This is why it's great to make it 3bbs on the button, more maneuverability pf and post-flop.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

698,620,032 games 0.563 secs 1,240,888,156 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.021% 65.72% 00.30% 459135264 2101188.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 33.979% 33.68% 00.30% 235282392 2101188.00 { 22 }


---

390,405,312 games 0.453 secs 861,821,880 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 68.860% 67.64% 01.22% 264070572 4761492.00 { 99+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 31.140% 29.92% 01.22% 116811756 4761492.00 { A4s }


---

[GatorJH]

also, opening 4x otb is just plain bad

Actually I am not sure why I did that as I normally raise 3x from the BU and SB

[kmind]

A4o!!!!!!!

[nutsinho]

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

As for the hand it's probably a thin shove. Not sure why we are looking for a new table. if hes 3betting 25%+ OOP vs our BU and CO opens we are going to get his monies.

[bigspenda73]

just a commentary on having an over-aggressive player on our left

(esp. if OP thinks we can 4bet/fold here....)

[mcatdog]

Not shoving here would just be silly. Why would you even raise the button with 22 with this clown in the blinds, unless you're going to 4-bet in his face? It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

[bode]

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw.

[Da GOAT]

i still 4x from first 2 spots, 3x CO and BTN. thats std imo

[GatorJH]

It's probably +EV to shove any two cards here.

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

This is what I wanted to confirm with my original post and although I didn't shove I did 4bet and villain folded.

Also a huge thanks the Mr. Suspenders for turning on that magic light for me related to the overall effect something as small as a 3xBB raise vs a 4xbb raise can have on something as simple as pre-flop betting.

Although I haven't done the math it seems like, in general, any 4bet would have to be a shove unless both hero and villain are fairly deep stacked.

[bigspenda73]

Also, thanks big suspenders for laying the smack down with the maths.

i just got tired of you correcting me

[nutsinho]

its more important to raise 3x from the CO in addition to button more so than SB. 4xing the SB is fine.

i raise 3x bb everywhere and 4x bb in the sb. standard? 200nl btw.

I 3x from utg-bu currently unless there is a stationy donk at the table. I think 4xing early is fine/good at low-mid stakes. From sb i open 4x vs tough loose aggressive players and 3x vs others.

[bigspenda73]

ridiculous question of the day: against someone who is going to 3bet like a monkey from the blinds would we rather minraise or limp the button with hands like 22-66?

[meeloche]

Sorry to hijack a bit but this is something I've been thinking about.

Do you guys find that 4x from the sb vs agro players reduces their 3bet%? All I can think of would be negatives for 4xing it like bloating the pot oop give villain more money to win with 3 bet and making our 4 betting less profitable cause we commit ourselves much easier.

Fill me in on the pro's?

(This is when it's folded around to hero in the sb)

[Genitruc]

aww in or aww out imo

i don t mind either

flip a coin