OP: Making my last deposit today, need guidance.

[notoriousnf]

Hello,

I've decided that as opposed to lurking around these forums (like I've been doing for the past few months) that I would start to participate more frequently. For the past year I'd say I've dumped about a total of $500+ into online poker and have cashed out for $250, therefore making me a losing player. My goal however, is to take this last $100 deposit I'm putting into my account (Pstars or FTP, I haven't decided which I want to yet) and make it last. I figure by setting guidelines for myself to not go broke that I can maintain and build on a steady bankroll in order to become a winning player.

Goal: Very simple. Use bankroll management and smart play in order to progress through the micro stakes. I want to grind my roll by mainly playing NLHE but I also want to become a more adept Omaha Hi player, too.

I hope that by making this thread I'll be able to make some posts of hands that I've had trouble with and receive valuable feedback as well as interacting with the supportive FTR community. My first dilemma is what sort of bankroll management guidelines should I be following? I've heard that I should have about 20 BI's for any cash game stake I'm playing, but would it be okay maybe to have 15 bi?

Any other suggestions or whatnot please post it up.

Thanks a lot and wish me luck!

-nf

[Kbryce23]

With $100 I would say start at 5nl, then once you get to $300 play 10nl. I would go with 30 BI's instead of 20. Goodluck

[oskar]

20 is probably fine for the micros. I have been a little more conservative and usually tried to grind out a couple of BI's over 20x for the next level before moving up, and then dropped back down when I got below that.
If you haven't been a winning player so far, it's probably better to grind a little at 2NL - once you've been consistently winning over a significant sample, move up to 5NL.
It's not like it makes a big difference. The more you're trying to hurry the more it's going to hurt you in the long run.
Spoon made a guide that has been quoted a lot... basically starting with 25NL you add 5BI for the next level, so it's: 25BI for 25NL, 30BI for 50NL, 40BI for 100NL, and so on.
Which makes sense imo. The competition gets tougher, the relative winrate goes down, and as a result the swings increase.

I would also consider just depositing the minimum. If you loose - It's very hard to loose multiple $10 deposits @ 2NL, and I think it's good for the overall discipline.

[mormannorman]

As far as where to put your $100, I would put it on PS because I think their rake might be kinder at the micros and you get their first time $50 bonus (if you haven't already)...

Then, if you make $600, you could switch over to FTP and take advantage of their bigger bonus.

I think 20 BI will be okay to start with, as long as you are willing to drop down pretty quick if you lose.

Good luck.

[notoriousnf]

Got into a tough spot today...... heres the hand


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($33.23)
SB ($25.10)
BB ($25.21)
Hero (UTG) ($23.90)
MP ($31.18)
CO ($62.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, K
Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.85) J, K, A (2 players)
Hero bets $1, CO calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, CO calls $2

River: ($7.85) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $2.75, CO raises to $58.95 (All-In), Hero ????

[Luco]

1/ what reads did you have?
2/ You said you were only depositing $100, that's just 4 buy ins for $25NL. A couple more hands like that one and you're broke again. $2NL for a while dude.
3/ Flop raise should have been pot sized with such a drawy board. Your bets on all 3 streets were too weak to push him off.
4/ when you're finished blowing $60 off your $100 at $25NL, please please please go down to $2NL before you lose the rest.

Good luck

[oskar]

This is a trivial fold without reads or history. Your bet sizing is pretty bad, and you're not even close to be rolled for 25NL.
Play 2NL. If you don't have the discipline for that, then I see no point in following this thread or trying to give you any advice.
Even the best players in the world would go broke with a 4BI BR.

[flomo]

are you related to slevin?

[hopeful]

Man what are you doing on this table? $25 is going to kill your bank roll.
As for the hand that $1 bet on the flop was too small. Thats one scary board and is really draw heavy. I would have pot sized + theflop and the turn, At least then you would know where you are at. The river bet was so small it looked weak and deserved to be raised with almost anything.
As played its an easy fold.

[notoriousnf]

I know I'm not rolled for 25NL just a bad habit =/ I used to play 25NL regularly 4-tabling PStars but then I had a terrible streak which killed most of my initial bankroll before I took out the rest. At one point I went AI with aces PF or on dry flops and lost 12/16. Needless to say my roll diminished quickly. However, I've began to 4-table 5NL instead and today I had two pretty decent sessions.

In my first session I got in about 640 hands and made 41.23 profit.
Second Session I played 1109 hands and made 10.67 profit at the end of that due to an epic phail hand.

Below are a few hands I had a bit of trouble with...

Hand 1 Villian is running about 38/24/43 over 44 hands. Normally a cbet makes him fold most of his range but how can I fold this given the action?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($11.70)
CO ($10)
Button ($7.71)
SB ($11.62)
BB ($10.91)
UTG ($18.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9, 9
1 fold, Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.62) 7, 2, 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($1.62) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, Button raises to $2.40, Hero ???

Hand 2 Villian was running 18/0 over 23 hands... not too much of a read on him yet

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($2.72)
BB ($5)
UTG ($4.56)
Hero (MP) ($4.91)
CO ($13.03)
Button ($14.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, A
1 fold, Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.47) 6, J, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.35, Button calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.17) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, Button calls $0.75

River: ($2.67) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, Button raises to $3.50, Hero ????


This hand was my favorite of the night. The hand before I just hit a nut flush and stacked someone with AsKs and set this play up perfectly..

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($1.60)
BB ($9.30)
Hero (UTG) ($5.47)
MP ($13.34)
Button ($19.76)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.17, MP calls $0.17, 1 fold, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.68) 6, 2, A (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds

Turn: ($1.28) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.95, BB calls $0.65

River: ($3.18) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero raises to $4.05 (All-In), BB calls $2.70

Total pot: $11.28 | Rake: $0.75

Results in white below:
BB had Q, A (one pair, Aces).
Hero had A, A (three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $10.53

This is what he had to say after that...

TTR32754: FAKIN IDIOT!!!
TTR32754: stupid idiot US players no skill just luck no brain


I just sorta lol'd at that haha.

Night all.

-nf

[hopeful]

Really good to see you on 5NL tables. Keep that disipline and you will soon be up to higher tables again.
Hand 1: I agree you can not fold, you might be beat but pot odds combined with passive opponenet suggests a call in order.
Hand 2: Also a call if you had any more money it would be a shove. Youre bet sizing was a bit small again especially on Turn and river I would have pushed all in on river but as it is you got all the money in. The raise on the end looks like a big stack trying to bully after you showed a bit of weakness on the river.
Hand 3 is a laugh but be careful you slow played those aces along time allowing so many free cards will hurt you eventually.

[BankItDrew]

I have nothing new to add, just that you need to follow BRM properly.

[notoriousnf]

Thanks for all the comments on my hands so far. Lately I've been working on my bet sizing on all streets and also my 3betting frequency. Today I had a few mini sessions and a big session tonight. In the first few i played in total 985 hands and made $24.52 which was nice . Then in my big session tonight I played 507 hands and made $19.82.

However there was an interesting spot I got into

Heres the first hand Id say I had trouble with. Villian is a reg running 27/11/12 over 200 hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($1.94)
UTG ($5)
MP ($4.02)
Button ($3.20)
Hero (SB) ($4.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 3
UTG bets $0.15, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.45) 2, 7, 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.15) J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, UTG calls $0.85

River: ($2.85) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.65 (All-In) Hero ???

And my fav of the night


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($9.62)
UTG ($8.56)
MP ($5)
CO ($5.11)
Button ($2.74)
SB ($5.47)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Button bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, UTG calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.47) 8, 10, K (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.20, Button raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, UTG raises to $1, Button calls $0.40, Hero raises to $9.47 (All-In), 1 fold, Button calls $1.59 (All-In)

Turn: ($6.65) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($6.65) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $6.65 | Rake: $0.44

I just wish I slowplayed it a little more and got the bigger stack invested more into the pot on the turn.

Anywho, off to bed now. night.

-nf

[Luco]

Hand 1: Betting into the pre-flop raiser is called a donkey bet, and is typically a sign of weakness. Check/call or check/fold. You should never have taken those treys to the river against an UTG raiser.

Hand 2: Standard. With a possible FD on the flop, heads up is preferred.

[hopeful]

Yea you must watch the donkey bet. Its not a Continuation bet because you were not the initial raiser. Playing a small pair out of position like that is really just set hunting. You will hit a set approximately 1 time in 7 so if you check fold when you miss and try and build the pot when you hit it can be profitable but only just.

Try to think of the hands the button might have played, its probably quite a large range, maybe 66+, A5+, K9+, QT+, suited connectros 56+, unsuited 78+, and their could well be quite a few others in the mix.
against this range 33 is about 47% pre flop and about 59% post flop.

A better play might have been a 3bet pre and then a CB. He would likely fold everything except a pair to this sequence.

p.s. The results are fab congats

[jyms]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t83931.html

so I guess your not going to follow the advice of the people that took the time to help at your request, and follow BRM?