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 Originally Posted by oskar
it's btn vs blind... You have like a 45% range, he probably has something like 10%call 13% 3-bet or whatever. There are no draws what so ever. You have a pair or better ~20% of the time, he probably even less depending on 3b%, and you are c-betting this flop with your entire range.
When you're getting donked into it's pretty much the same as a c-bet. You don't give him much credit for anything.
If he checks it's going to go: c-bet/raise a lot, and then the button has the option to either float or 3-bet or whatever. If he donks, he takes those away from you. You cannot float air with a psb left, and then do what? You cannot always just ship it for 100bb. What I'm saying is by donking you can make a way more effective bluff and just in general frustrate the crap out of your opponent in these spots.
I disagree a lot.
BB checks it is not with the intention of c/ring very often. A typical defending range from a nit like this is weighted heavily towards midpairs and hands like AQ/AJ/KQ, basically hands that can't fold and the nit is too boring to 3bet.
All of these hands have showdown value apart from KQ. It is extremely difficult to c/r anything for value on this board, since we are essentially repping 88/badly played 22 and then perhaps A8s/98s/T8s if 1p0kerboii has opened up his game a little since I last played him which I doubt.
Therefore as you rightly say, donking becomes a more credible move, since we have a lot of marginal strength hands in our range and also some bluffs which have decent equity. The problem (or occasionally great thing) about donking is that it frequently induces spazz attacks as shown by pokerfan's play here with their entire range. This is very opponent dependant, some players will raise the flop with their entire range and we should only donk for value. Others fold religiously to donks yet give c/rs on dry board little credit.
If we choose to donk, we are by no means removing the float from the button's arsenal. If you are donking a lot with air, one of the easiest ways to counter this is to float the flop bet. If you are talking about people floating a flop 3bet, yes that is pretty tough to do, but once you 3bet the flop are you going to be shoving the turn when called? The button could possibly call the flop 3bet with somethingg like JJ+, and then any 8+ (but there are LOADS of 8s in the button's range - A8,K8,J8,T8,98,78,68s,58s etc.etc. and also 22 is in the button's range more frequently than the BB). Basically if you 3bet this flop as a bluff you are never following through on the turn with this knowledge, and if the button knows this he can reach showdown easily with JJ+ and even wider since he can check behind his entire massively strong range on the turn to either induce a river bluff shove or reach showdown with marginal hands.
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100NL, i had no idea why a 2p2er made donk lead twice.
, 10
, 8
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(2 players)
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