Operation: Stop trying to outplay everyone!

[Donachello]

Well, since I've finally decided to take poker seriously after multiple buy-ins and tilt spews I figured I might as well have a plan to go with that.

Tonight was the prime example of the polar opposite end of the spectrum I want to be on. In my absurdly egotistical poker mind tonight (normally I'm pretty even keel) I was convinced that not only did I have the best hand EVERY pot but even when I clearly didn't have the best hand I could barrel this "moron fish" off his great hand. That mixed in with the standard stream of bad beats had me in a horrendous mind-state to make money.

I've always overrolled in every poker experience I have had and generally been successful at first when I play very tight and smart. However, it's time for me to actually build a BR as I am coming to look at this as a possible future source of income and also extremely fun hobby.

Step 1: Decisively beat microstakes.
Using proper BR management I want the satisfaction of actually building from my initial deposit of $30 + $30 from previous rakeback.

Keys to completing step 1:
My main problem is always thinking I can out play everyone from calling stations to nits. I really need to emphasize pot control and slow down and think through my moves. Just cause I have a semi-successful time c-betting doesn't mean I need to do it all the time, especially when I am getting called down on multiple streets.
My second problem and this is one that is harder to fix is donking on flips to short stacks. Sure probably at least 50% of the time I get my money in ahead or even with a short stacker they seem to be one of my biggest leaks.

Step 2: To infinity and beyond
ETA: A very long time. :P

I have two of Skalansky's books which I plan to finish when I get back to college from break and at that time I will finally give in an use poker tracker or hold 'em manager. I am always open to suggestions and hope to really grow as a poker player over the next year.

Thanks for reading

[Donachello]

I made an observation last night while I spent a good 1k hand session recouping the losses I had tilted away in the first 150 hands. I noticed that I check my BR and AWFUL lot. Like... after almost every other hand. We all know that once you start caring about the money involved you start to make more mistakes and this was certainly true for me. after losing almost 5 buy ins and OCD checking my BR every 5 seconds after that I told me self to chill out and just play poker like I know I can.

End result?

I probably checked my BR about 4 times over the next hour and a half of play just to see where I was and *gasp* I had fully recouped all of my losses from the tiltspew that had started my session. I'm realizing just how important it is to actually think during poker (NO SH*T STUPID). Taking your time > mechanical bet patterning 100% of the time.

[JKDS]

Heh, we both have the same problem. Lets get rid of it mate! No more of this "YOURE TO DUMB TO BEAT ME" bs nonsense and actually start fuckin these fishies up the right way.

+1 to taking time as well, nothing wrong with taking 5 seconds for every decision cuz the usual instant click is just a trainwreck waiting to happen and can potentially give off timing tells anyway.

GL dude

[Micro2Macro]

Oh man, if you can cut down checking your bankroll to only once a day, I can guarantee your win rate will improve significantly.

[Donachello]

Okay wow, so got my head back on straight following an AWFUL downswing of bad beats last night. Sure... lost an entire weeks grinding profit. Oh well. I also made an interesting observation about a fundamental flaw in my game.

In an effort to spur more action and bigger hands I found I was leading out with a LOT of marginal hands and actually hoping to get called by better hands so I could maybe hit the flop on them. Correct me if I am wrong but... wtf? If I'm not mistaken the point is to lead when your range is ahead and get called by worse, and to check, call, or fold when you are behind. Some how I thought doing the opposite was a smart thing

Sadly the BR is 9 buy-ins below where it was yesterday but at least I'm learning.

[Donachello]

Ahhh it feels so much better to be winning. I read and reread sauce's article about beating 6-max and honestly it really applies to just about any poker as least as a base line. I had dropped almost 30 bucks in 1c2c over 3 days which is pretty horrendous and as soon as I read the article I have made back the 30 and more in the last two days. There's certainly something to be said about having a game plan going into things and good lord was I lost before haha. Looking forward to the shift up stakes soon, actually took and overrolled shot at them tonight for a little bit and made a couple buy-ins.

[BankItDrew]

Your effort will bring you success.

/fortune cookie

[Donachello]

Thanks drewski

Sadly the shift up in stakes was a mistake as I quickly dropped the couple of BIs i had won bringing my account back to where I started the day.

Things to work on:
Not c-betting EVERY hand when I KNOW that at least one person will be calling and that I clearly don't have the best hand or a very good draw.
Knowing when to slow down and when to speed up. Listening to my gut and varying my betting size for both bluffs and v-bets.

Also just for giggles and as a Christmas present I'd like more hands like this one
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (3 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($2.30)
Hero (SB) ($4.25)
BB ($1.26)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5, 2
BB calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.04) 2, 2, 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.04, Hero calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.12) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.20 (All-In), Hero calls $1.20

River: ($2.52) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $2.52

[dranger7070]

Gl man. Do what m2m said and just check that shiz at the end of the day, if then. I wouldn't suggest going cold turkey, but slowly wean yourself off checking ur BR all the time. It's so +EV its sick. Just focus on the tables, and pwn.

[Donachello]

Wow.... I just don't know what I'm doing wrong at this point. I have a great session and get myself into the black again. BR was up to 78 and I played great and ran great. So the next time I log on I immediately lose 5 buy ins to coolers and bad beats in the first 5 minutes... Awesome start. I spend 2 more hours slowly grinding away making about half of it back and then BAM another insta 4 buy in down swing. It's like every time I get any confidence FullTilt just punches me in the face.

So finally I decided to get the PT3 demo last night and have since logged 1700 hands. Once again today's session starts off with 2 stack offs (one stupid vs a short stack) and another where I get my money in ahead only to be drawn on. Sweet I'm loving this trend. Not. I grind away AGAIN make back the buy ins AGAIN. and end my session by shitting away 4 more buy ins on stupid calls and just garbage. So here I am. BR back down to 51. No clue how I am suppose to ever get to 2c5c considering every good session is followed by 4 or 5 absolute trash ones.

Obviously I must be missing out on value on some hands but I just can't make money when I get a walk every time I make a standard raise with a good hand. I'll post my stats in a few days once my sample size is a bit bigger but holy God am I in need of a change in the way I am running.

[BankItDrew]

This is the solution to all of your problems:

Stack off and build pots on your terms, not villains. You should find yourself playing nittier postflop, which leads to losing more small pots and losing less big ones. Concentrate on this during your entire next session.

[dranger7070]

Start posting your 3 biggest losing hands in the BC from every session. It will allow you (and others) to look at where you are stacking off, give you a chance to explain why, and then let everyone tear you a new one. Win/win imo.

[JKDS]

once again, i have similar problems don. the answer for me is just that i dont have any idea of how the people/table are playing...so when some guy does an obvious value line i mistake it for "lol, what a laggtard..im owning you with my TPGK". Maybe just play squeeky tight for an orbit or two and not go getting into any big pots without reads or the nuts?

[Donachello]

Yeah thanks for the advice guys. I made a huge discovery today. wait for it..... Not being a total moron is +EV! I tightened everything up and stopped checking the BR and actually focused on the hands and I am back to right around 60 where I started. At least I'm not down to like $45 like I was earlier today

I think I'll start a tradition of posting (like dranger suggested) my top 3-5 losing hands.

Hand 1:

Had something like 53/30 over about 40+ stats and he seemed like a donking draw chaser.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.46)
Button ($2)
Hero (SB) ($3.14)
BB ($2.93)
UTG ($1.97)
MP ($1.76)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J
2 folds, CO bets $0.08, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.07, 1 fold

Maybe not the best call from the SB but as far as suited connectors go these aren't bad.

Flop: ($0.18) 7, J, 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Waited for the continuation bet here. Not sure why I didn't repop it but I hadn't gotten much value from the table in a while so I didn't want to scare him off + I didn't want to get reshoved off my hand.

Turn: ($0.38) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.24, CO calls $0.24

Okay he's gotta be on a hearts draw or perhaps two over cards. Probably could have made it .30 to go.

River: ($0.86) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.71, CO raises to $1.62, Hero calls $0.91

Cool, missed his hearts draw, and there's no overs on the board. Raise seemed like a missed draw bluff. I mean why would he ever have spades here? Boo...........

Total pot: $4.10

Hand 2:
3rd hand at the table, no reads other than an incorrect gut feeling he has 66-JJ

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($3.31)
Hero (Button) ($2)
SB ($0.85)
BB ($3.32)
UTG ($2.42)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
UTG bets $0.07, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.28, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.21

Flop: ($0.59) 2, 3, 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.38, Hero raises to $0.90, UTG raises to $1.42, Hero raises to $1.72 (All-In), UTG calls $0.30

Turn: ($4.03) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.03) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.03


Hand 3:
Villain was a crappy short stacker with something like 50/4 over 60 or so hands. Figured he'd be stacking off with Ax some random PP a FD or even something like KQ.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($5.37)
BB ($1.86)
UTG ($0.50)
MP ($1)
Button ($2.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
1 fold, MP checks, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.08, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.22) J, 9, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.14, BB raises to $0.28, Hero raises to $1.88, BB calls $1.48 (All-In)

Turn: ($3.74) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($3.74) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $3.74

Hand 4:
was just an AI stack off with A10s vs two short stackers. Only lost $1 there.

Hand 5:
This last one pissed me off. I was crushing this guy HU just pushing him around with 3bets. He was a weak TAG and he has essentially what I thought he did.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($3.95)
SB ($2)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 7
SB bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.04

Not a standard preflop call but I'd been outplaying him badly so far and I like to mix these hands in every now and then HU.

Flop: ($0.12) 10, 7, Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.08, SB calls $0.08

Money flop for my hand. I know I have the best hand when he just calls since he had been raising a lot when he obviously had something.

Turn: ($0.28) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, SB calls $0.30

This card obviously doesn't help him so I bet pot so only morons with overs or maybe a flush draw will stay in. But I repeat only morons call.

River: ($0.88) A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.63, SB calls $0.63

Basically just bet here knowing in all likelyhood he had an Ax hand but also hoping maybe he has 22-66 or something like KJ or K10 of spades. Either way I was curious and turned out to have a pretty good read.

Total pot: $2.14


That last hand was canceled out by this one 2 minutes and about 15 hands later. I had taken down 3/5 hands by 3betting him or raising his cbet on the flop and I knew he was probably semi-tilted and would over play overs and draws as well as probably try to bluff me one of the next times i pushed him out of a hand.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (3 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($2.95)
BB ($0.40)
Button ($2.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2, A
Button bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.24, 1 fold, Button calls $0.18

Flop: ($0.50) 7, 9, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, Button raises to $1.30, Hero raises to $2.71 (All-In), Button calls $1.31 (All-In)

Turn: ($5.72) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.72) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.72

Yeah I got kinda lucky he had QJo and didn't hit but I knew he didn't have a made hand so I felt pretty good about the raise I made.


Ps. Is there a way to view the hudstats of other people while reviewing the hand in PT3 (just got it so i don't really know how it works yet and as such any VPIP/PRF i posted are estimations from what i can remember)?

[dranger7070]

Good analysis dude. I'm feeling kind of lazy atm, so I won't comment yet, but I will when I'm not so lethargic. I get the feeling this will be really good for your game in the long run. I posted my top 3 in the BC last night and it felt good posting and explaining why I did what I did. Got some good feedback too, so it definitely helps.

[BankItDrew]

hand 1)
everything is great except for the river. if you want to bet it - you're betting for super thin value. So, bet something like half pot or less, none of this full pot stuff because there are literally no hands that call that you beat. He shoves your massively shown strength, no way are you good here enough of the time to call.

hand 2)
perfect, best board you could hope for without improving your hand.

hand 3)
if he's a crappy short stacker, it's fine

hand 5)
on river -

Basically just bet here knowing in all likely hood he had an Ax hand but also hoping maybe he has 22-66 or something like KJ or K10 of spades

why are we betting then? Ax has you beat, KTs is not possible, KJ and 22 has you beat. You say you know you're ahead on the turn, so why are we bluffing river?

hand 6)
3 betting pre this big or 3 betting at all is pretty bad. Continuation bet is fine, but why are we stacking off? This is so bad it's not even funny. QJ is literally the only hand that we are ahead of that does this. Guess how much we are ahead by? Try 52%-48%

Overall, you are stacking off way too light in these examples. QJ on a JT753 three spade board after a villain shove on river, 73s with middle pair, A2o no pair no draw... come on.

[Donachello]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Anyway, I cashed in my rakeback and moved to 2c5c today. Session started out fine, was up about a buyin and a half and just playing the usual tight tight tight AGG poker. Unfortunately, I am essentially card dead. One of my tables began with me folding 32 straight hands and any time I got a decent hand... yep no action. I've been card dead all day and if I loosen up, all of a sudden I get 3bet on all of my not so great hands. It's been a lose lose situation today and it looks like I'm about to have to move back down to 1c2c since I have dropped 5BIs in the last hour and a half; 1 to tilt, 1 to a bad bluff, and 3 to short stacking fools who shove with ATC and draw out.

Sometimes poker makes me want to break things.
i guess you just have to ride out the bad times though

[Donachello]

Okay, so I am experimenting with various concepts and I thought I had at least a solid basis locked down in 1c2c. Right now, however, I'm right back where I started so I thought I'd post my stats (albeit a small sample) and see if there are an obvious leaks people can spot just from the numbers.



thanks for any and all responses

[dranger7070]

AF is a lil too high, you're probably blowing ppl off hands too much, 3bet is a little high for 2nl/5nl. I'm at 10nl and I'm STILL only 3betting my nut hands unless I have an "aware" opponent (running stats like yoursish) then I'll do it with Axs and stuff but theres really no reason to 3bet 7% at less than 25nl. Also, Fold to 3bet could be higher.

[mawlin]

gl in your poker quest

[Donachello]

Ahh, bringing in the new year in a good way. Feeling a lot more confident in my game. Watched a bunch of the grinderschool videos by Spenda and I've really tightened everything up. It's a pretty good feeling to be running absolutely horribly for 2 hours and never dropping more than .50% of a buy in and then finishing the whole awful session up 2.5 buy ins.

I might as well make some resolutions while I'm at it:

1) Continue my poker growth on a mental level and avoid the tilty spew that has plagued my game from time to time.
2) Reach 1k in online earnings.
3) Reach 1500 in online earns so I can play .25/.50 HU (HU being my favorite game).
4) Somehow juggle college, poker, college baseball, and still manage enough sleep to make all my gym time worthwhile.

this last one is a shout out to spoon who probably thinks I'm mentally retarded but has managed to hammer an idea into my skull.
5) ALWAYS PUT PEOPLE ON A GODDAMN RANGE