ABCD Theorem Exercise (Adjusting to Floats)

[surviva316]

Hey, i know that there's a thread for this, but it's essentially dead now, and i will receive no responses there.

.5/1 blinds, 100bb effective stacks (PreFlop is just to make the math easier for the turn)

Hero is dealt any two cards.
LimpFoldDonk limps for $1, FitorFoldFish limps for $1, Hero Raises to $5.50, TAgg Villain calls $5.50, 4 Folds

Flop ($14.50)
Hero Bets $11, TAgg Villain calls $11

Turn ($36.50)
Hero's turn to act...

Let's say that villain only 3b's for value, so i PFR'ed pretty wide pre. he plays 20/15, and floats me often, especially on dry A-high flops and with a lot of draws. he's likely to raise the flop with his very best draws (combo draws, AhXh, OESD + overs [though this isn't possible here], and so forth). i've started to find that he likely insta-folds his floats to a second barrel if it doesn't improve.

A Range - {JJ, 88, 66, 22 (though i'm not sure i would cbet this on the flop against a floater), KK+ and J8s if i decided to play it pre} Hands we c/shove. These hands are not very vulnerable to having a free card be taken on us because the reads indicate that he will seldom have a draw, and all of his made hands have few outs against us. anything he's checking behind with are hands that he's likely trying to see a showdown with, so we would be hard pressed to get value from that range anyway (this way we give ourselves a chance of getting one more street out of him on the river). this obv gets us another street of value from floats that simply woulda folded to a bet. additionally, it merges with our wide bluffing range (to be discussed later) and villain will be forced to call down with QQ, AJ type hands, lest he be super exploitable.

we might have to throw in some b/c every once in a while here or else we're super exploitable to a shove every time we bet

B Range - {AJ, KJ, QJ, JT, J9s, and QQ. 99-TT prolly depend on how often i think he's firing a barrel on the river} Hands that I want to see a showdown with. This range is a bit wider due to the fact that I know there aren't many draws that villain will "take a free card" with (because he's either raising his draws on the flop or floating them on the turn), so i don't need to protect. I can also widen it a bit because i know that he's floating here often enough for me to be able to make a c/c profitable with otherwise marginal hands. i'm actually probably betting AJ or QQ 'cause given reads, villain is mainly only raising if he has these hands beat, and it would seem tough for him to bluff a river scare card based on his range that would call a bet here.

C Range - {any FD, and OESD, any GSSD with an overcard} we check/shove these as a semi-bluff. his range for calling the flop and betting the turn when checked to is dominated by hands that can't continue to a CRAI, and we have outs against all the hands that do. we check these to polarize our nut/bluff range and to keep our exploitable betting range thin.

D Range - {air and queenless GSSD's} we give into his float play here and give up. because he's susceptible to double barrels with his floating range, we can mix in a few b/f's, especially with the GSSD's or an AK or a hand that doesn't have any blockers to SD's and FD's (like 3d3c).

how'd i do? it seems like i treat a floater on a wet board like a PFR, and don't lead into them very often.

*waits to be bashed*

[Renton]

you used the theorem correctly but there are a few problems

1) the stacks are such that c/ring for value isn't particularly good, theres just no reason not to bet bet shove with your A range.

2) the C range will probably benefit more from betting as a semibluff than check shoving.

i think both of these things because i think even though villain may like to float, he's nto especially as likely too in a spot where betting the turn would create an awkward amount of stack left. the pot is just too big to make a bunch of moves, imo. its very different from if you opened the pot for 3 and he called on the button.

so in summary you used the theorem correctly but imo are playing the subranges incorrectly.

[Marshall28]

If he's floating you too much and the board doesn't change on the turn, just barrel all your air, c/c your medium strength type hands like overpairs and top pair, and c/r your big draws/sets/2pr. E-Z.

[tom'NOT'dwan]

I think thats ok some stantard tags at 100nl but a thinking player can exploit the fact your betting range is only air?

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I think thats ok some stantard tags at 100nl but a thinking player can exploit the fact your betting range is only air?

How does he exploit it if he doesn't know that you are doing it! A lot of times you'll find that your best option is ridiculously exploitable, which makes sense. If you determine that the opponent will fold everything JT and worse on that board (which is probably unreasonable but bear with me), would you bet QJ for "balance."? Think about it for a second. No way that makes no sense. You're going to bet all your air, which is exploitable only if he calls with every pair and raises all his air. But since we determined he's not, you bet all your air, the perfect counterstrategy! If he decided to adjust only then does it matters that you're being exploitable, but hopefully you'll be one step ahead.

The only reason you would want to have some value in your range is if you feel it will cause your opponent to misperceive your range in such a way that benefits you. This is more of a feeling thing and i wouldnt even worry about it until you master adjusting your range purely to exploit your opponent.

[daven]

i'm interested in your A-range play. If he's a serial floater then why not bet flop, check turn?
Barrel air and draws as semi-bluffs cos he folds to barrels
check-call medium strength hands.

[surviva316]

i tried to contrive a scenario where the stack sizes weren't too awkward for a c/shove. if he floats ~2/3 PSB, then that would be for almost exactly 1/3 of his stack. i guess float bet sizing is generally smaller than a value bet on these wet type of boards?

daven, my A range says that i am betting flop, checking turn (then raising over a float/vbet)

given massimo's response, i def agree i should bet more of my draws. i chose c/shoving for all of my draws because my betting range seemed so vulnerable to bluff raises if i did it so frequently (but i guess given my read on opponent we don't have to worry about that so much). if that's the case, then i feel i should move hands like Th9h and AhQh into my A-range, as i still like c/shoving those.

now that i'm barrelling most of my draws and more air, what do i do on the river with a hand like QdTd if the Qc hits the river? am i a terrible nit for wanting to check it down in this case?

i presume we can't triple barrel these type hands if an Ac hits? doesn't seem like we're folding out very much