Comments: Apply Yourself!

[lamaros]

{Comments on http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-17663.htm }


It helps to play infrequently at first too.

Read the guides/books/etc and play for a hour or so. Then take a break for a few days and think about it and re-read the material. Try to compare your recent experience with what you read and work out what you did wrong and should do differently.

Then play a little more. Then take a break and do the same thing.

Perhaps work into it by only playing once or twice a week, and never for a long stretch at a time (3 hours +).

You really have to not only read stuff but think about and compare it to your experiences before it starts to sink in, and you have to give yourself the time to think about it properly without being distracted by actually playing.

Also, it's better to read too much rather than too little. Being able to look at all the different advice and compare it not only with your own game but with the other advice will help you identify the key points even easier, and will help your find strategy and advice that helps you improve the specific areas of your game that need it most.

[elanto]

ok one more little thing...when youre playing an sng for example right down every important hand that happend throughout the sng, then go back to Dav's sng guide and see what mistakes you made and how to fix them according to Dav..for example..you skim through your notes and find you played 9 significant hands on the first two levels....now, dav says you should be very thight so unless u had aces and kings 5-6 times you probably were playing to loose. APPLY what you read o your game..its as simple as that


-anto

[TLR]

Great post - Dwarfman

Read, absorb, and incorperate into your play

Poker is not a game in which there is a 'textbook' way to follow and win the game every time, otherwise everyone will do it.

Learn from the experience of others and learn to apply them into your game

And one more thing - it is the process and not the result that counts, too many beginners are results oriented - its about going through the correct thinking process and doing the correct thing with the information you have, not about what actually happened in any specific hand

[Legendash]

Having said all that, unless you've played a certain amount of poker a lot of strategy will not be relevant to you. If you're just starting out i would read strategies concerning basic ring/SNG/MTT play but you don't necessarily have to understand the finer points of bluffing in 1000NL. Also you need to be careful which area you're reading up on, i remember when i first started out i was playing SNG's but had a starting hand selection designed for ring games, it was useful in that i realised KT wasn't a good hand but it didn't help me when it came to changing gears later on. If you're just starting out and want to be profitable it's best to focus on one aspect (Probably not big MTT's as the time between cashes can be very long) and get good at that.

[Xanadu]

It's also good to slow down the process while playing and really make sure you are thinking through each and every decision. For people without a ton of experience (such as myself), I think this means only playing one or two tables some of the time so we can really pay attention and have the time to think things through. I think I can do a pretty decent job of analyzing a hand and coming to a good, or at least reasonable decision, but I often find myself playing a hand automatically in a SNG or MTT, busting out, and then thinking it through a minute later and realizing I really had made a huge error and should have thought more before I hit that call button or pushed all-in.

Consistently playing your 'A-game' should be the goal. One little lapse in concentration is all it takes to turn a well played tournament into an unnecessary bust. And in ring games, if you are capable of 2BB/hr and play one hand an hour badly because of poor concentration costing you 1BB, well, there goes half your hard-fought profit.

[Miffed22001]

As always great stuff aokrongly (and dman!)

[PerfectDodge]

Alright... finally gonna do it... make my first post here at FTR. Don't be too harsh

First I must say that I've been a 'lurker' on the site for a short while now; I've been into poker for about a year, haven't really started 'playing' til the past six months, and recently I've gotten into it pretty solidly. I've been googling things online, looking up strategies, sites, helpful guides for newbies such as myself... I like to think that I may get somewhere someday because I'm not going into it thinking I'm a pro, or that I'm gonna read a guide and go make big bucks, or that everything in Poker is as easy as "AA, all in" and making huge cash.

I've read basically all the stickies in 5-6 sections of these forums, and I must say this one applies the most. Of those 3-5 stickies in 5-6 sections, how much of it have I absorbed? I've learned some stuff, sure. Some stuff I'm realizing I probably ignored unintentionally, and should go back and re-read... Furthermore, the things I 'learned', I realize I need to not only 'know', but know 'why' as well. This single post has gone far in showing me what I need to do, how I need to focus my energy and attention to not BEING a great player, but becoming a great player. Everytime I read about Poker or see it on TV or catch some friends in the game, I get that tinge of excitement... the thrill of the game, the urge to pick up a pair of cards and see what I get... and I am being very patient to tell myself that it IS a long hard road, and just because I found this site doesn't mean I'm going to go log on any site and make cash... Maybe not for months. Lately I've been playing the Yahoo poker games which is probably a joke around these boards, but honestly, its Poker, its experience (though kind of odd, do people really Raise 25 offsuit with nothing on the board every chance they get in reality?) and I'm not about to go bust a paycheck to lose it in a few minutes on another online site... yet...

This is probably the wrong area to even do this and perhaps a bit improper but I really want to thank the guys taking the time to right guides, strategies, hints, newbie notes, and all the other things that, without, I'd be completely hopeless. I came to FTR hoping for a site with information, a positive community, and information that I can use today to learn the game and next year to discuss my losing hand, next summer to discuss a nice pot I made (hopefully!) The references to other sites and informative guides are also top notch, and I appreciate it all. I apologize for the long post but I didn't want to just make a "Thanks, great guide!" reply to this thread without first thanking the others that I've spent days reading nonstop without posting a reply to. Here's to the start of poker-playing-days in a young blood, and the hope that you guys can really show me what its all about.

And why.

[Irisheyes]

Thats a good first post man. It was worth the wait! You're right about it not being a get rich quick scheme but with the right attitude anyone can make long term money at this game.

About playing poker you should just put $50 on one of the sites that have 2nl and play there. That won't cost a full paycheck and you'll get loads of experiece out of that money.

[eeeee]

About playing poker you should just put $50 on one of the sites that have 2nl and play there. That won't cost a full paycheck and you'll get loads of experiece out of that money.

Exactly.
Do PokerStars. Play a DAY OR TWO for play money, then deposit $50 and play $2 ring games and a couple $5+.50 SnG's.
Why PStars? Because their newbies are relatively serious (IMO), and you won't be wasting a great bonus by under-depositing there -- they have no signup bonus.
When you are winning, you can move to $10nl and play more SnG's. And when you are ready to build your online bankroll, come back for bonus advice.
Some people will advise you to apply for a free $10 or $20 available at some online rooms. I won't. That money is soon gone, you won't have the right tables to play at, and you are usually denying yourself a $50 deposit bonus to take a $10 bonus that you cannot withdraw until you deposit at the room anyway.
Probably more than you were asking, but worth hearing.

[PerfectDodge]

Well, I've gotten quite sick of Yahoo already. I never expected much out of it except for time filler, but having a table where everyone is a maniac raiser is just stupid, nobody even knows what they have and although you guys could probably clean up their I need somewhere with decent players to learn what's going on. Thus, I downloaded ParadisePoker, and I'm really liking it. I'm only playing Play Money atm since its my first real online poker venture, and I don't have the spare cash to throw out the door at better players before I get some idea of the online environment.

When it does come down to putting in a deposit and trying out some of the low stakes / NL games however I'll definitely be taking your guys' advice. You start with 1000 chips at Paradise, and playing virtually all day yesterday (a good 4-6 hours between work and much needed sleep) I lost ~250 of them. At one point I was up to ~1100, and when I called it quits for the night I was sitting at around 750. Again, not expecting to cash in first day, and I'm actually quite happy that I was able to 'stay afloat' if you will for so long.

Online is odd; I'm used to playing RL where you can stare the guy in the eye, with people who I know - I know who doesn't even know what makes a flush better than a three of a kind, I know who will raise nonstop just because they can, etc... here its a bit trickier. HOWEVER - from my day of playing yesterday I've now got a load more questions, hopefully gonna get them answered while I'm at work now, then go home and play some more! Loving it already... appreciate the info~!

[stylemaster1]

After reading Perfect Dodge's post, I got all worked up and registered and have to "1st post" also......

We sound very similar in our new-found love for the online game and community. I am 45, have 3 kids, two in college, 1 almost there...I have been a single parent for the last 18 years. My "joy" in life was teaching my kids as they grew up. Taught son baseball, golf and pool, and the girls, golf and pool. Son plays bb in college now, still love to watch him but he is "untethered" now, doing it all on his own. Daughter still plays hs golf, which I coach, and she wants to go on to college with it. While I have literally poured my heart into teaching the kids, what I've come to discover as they all grow up and out is this............I LOVE TO LEARN MORE!!!! As kid #3 grows, she is gone from the house more, and I have discovered online poker. Like Dodge, I too started last week at Paradise, playing the play money tables.....The first few days I'd go up/down @ the 1000 mark, (up200, down200) and thought, eh, I'm ok. Then I started reading this forum and others, scanning the tactics/strategies sections, looking to see what my novice mind didnt "know" about Tex.Holdem. I knew how to play, but didnt understand the WHYS of it.....that's what I enjoy, just understanding the whys. After reading many articles, (but maybe not really absorbing/committing to style of play) I returned to Paradise. 4th day I went from 1000 to 2000 in a few hours. Last nite started at 2500 and in five hours was up to over 4900! I have got the "bug".......not the poker one, but the mastering Holdem bug!!! Last nite I won an auction on Ebay for three good poker books (according to all your referrals) for 13.00$ !!!! Felt like I hit a straight flush on that deal as I know these books are about 15-20$ each.

As my kids get up/out and on with their lives, I see this community as a new learning venture for myself and look forward to soaking you guys up like a spongue, making many new friends, and getting better at poker....(maybe, maybe down the road even make some money!!!) Thank you for letting me get that out, I hope to learn much from everyone here......Joe

[Halv]

playing for point is to poker as Playing Monopoly is to Real Estate Investing

As they say, "Quoted for truth".

[stylemaster1]

As an update from last month.........I've been grinding it out at Paradise, started out with $50 deposit (yes, i know, didnt maximize my deposit here) and bangin heads in the .02/.04 rooms.....gradually moving up to .05/.10 and .10/.20. My br has gone from $50 to $170 in about 5 weeks, so it's slow and gradually building....as it does, I feel more comfortable moving up in the games. Cleared my little $25 bonus here and will wait on a reload. I really enjoy Paradise, just need to work my game up to .50/1 and get the br up so I can start "seeing whats out there!"

Have set myself a goal to double br in Feb to $300 and again in March...I believe this is attainable, giving me something to "shoot for" in terms of visible results, but still the most important thing is to keep learning strategies and apply them, I look at this phase in my development as "paying the tuition"...If I lose and play right.....thats ok. This is learning money and I dont mind if i have to pay some now to learn the right ways to do this... I am still VERY excited about learning...have gone thru SSH and HePFAP once each, The Tao of Poker, and have Theory of Poker on its way from Ebay!!! Cant get enough, feel like they are all "textbooks" and Im taking a "poker class" !!!!! Still lovin it!

[dj newman]

Fantastic posts,

I have went from lurking, to partially lurking, to trying to get more involved on FTR. When I first started playing online, I went through a mad rush of playing as much as possible. I was a decent player, but would make some, lose some and wasn't going anywhere in a hurry. Most of my time now is spent researching and learning from others on this site. I play only when I am totally committed to it now. Before I would play....without really playing, or focusing. Now, I try to totally focus while I am playing, and even though I make mistakes (still play too weak sometimes), I am learning more than ever, my game has improved greatly and my bankroll is way up because of it. The more I learn about this great game, the more I realize how little I actually know...and how much poker is a resemblence of the inner self, to become a winning poker player you have to be completely honest with yourself, to constantly challenge what you know...as in life. The first step is admitting that you are not near as good as you think you are and then deciding to improve it.

Dustin

Fantastic posts,

I have went from lurking, to partially lurking, to trying to get more involved on FTR. When I first started playing online, I went through a mad rush of playing as much as possible. I was a decent player, but would make some, lose some and wasn't going anywhere in a hurry. Most of my time now is spent researching and learning from others on this site. I play only when I am totally committed to it now. Before I would play....without really playing, or focusing. Now, I try to totally focus while I am playing, and even though I make mistakes (still play too weak sometimes), I am learning more than ever, my game has improved greatly and my bankroll is way up because of it. The more I learn about this great game, the more I realize how little I actually know...and how much poker is a resemblence of the inner self, to become a winning poker player you have to be completely honest with yourself, to constantly challenge what you know...as in life. The first step is admitting that you are not near as good as you think you are and then deciding to improve it.

Dustin

Good post dj newman. But remember that EXPERIENCE is the best teacher in poker. Theres nothing that will teach you more than actually living the situations that you study. So while studying FTR and poker books is fantastic, remember that you have to keep playing as much as possible as well, if you are looking to improve a great deal (which of course everyone is).

[Buzz]

I think I posted this before but lost it when the database had problems. I'm much the same as other newcomers who are keen to be serious about improving. I started with Tom McEvoy and Brad Daughterty's book for new players, I'm now on to Harrington on Hold'Em Vol 1 and I've got the Sklansky books to come as well.

My major issue at the moment is finding an effective METHOD to applying all the knowledge so that it is incorporated and retained in my gameplay. At the moment I find I'm reading greats tuff and taking notes etc but when I hit the tables the action is fast and its difficult to apply it all well. I'm really interested to hear if any other players developed a structured learning method - clearly different ways will work for differnet people but any tips may be useful.

[dj newman]

I usually try and apply what I have learned right away...which usually spells initial disaster since I use the concept in a bad situation...but from the mistakes it becomes a lot easier to not only use the concept in better suited situations....but more importantly understand why you are using it. Some of my favorite books I have read more than once....and will probably read them again at some point to gleen any extra information off of them such as H0H 1 and 2. I have found going and playing live in a casino has helped immensely. I am able to take a lot more time in making important decisions and get a lot better reads off my opponents. I have also gained a better understanding of the styles of players a lot better which transforms into better internet play as well.

[Renton]

This is somewhat of a hijack. I was reminded because someone mentioned Harrington on Hold'em.

These were wonderful books and were, I felt, the best poker literature I have read yet for NLHE (way above and beyond Super System 2, Championship HE, Phil Gordon's books, Phil Hellmuth's books, Sklansky's books).

However, ironically, as HOH are tourny holdem books, my tourney results have taken a nosedive since I have read them and my ring game results have skyrocketed.

I don't really understand why. Any theories?

[dj newman]

small sample size??? Although, I have found my ring game has improved immensely from H0H 1.

[ChipTime67]

I haven't made a long post for a while, so I'll write something down now.

This post is primarily aimed at beginners, but it wouldn't hurt for some of the veterans to read it.

So, you've just discovered Texas Hold'em, you start playing and you think it is fantastic, and you become addicted and want to get better at it. So then after some Googling you come across a site called FTR, and after some searching on the Barnes and Noble website, you see a few poker strategy books that you might want, so you order them.

But this is the mistake I see so many beginners make. They sign up for FTR and buy books, then they read the books and the FTR stickies. But they fail to actually absorb the information. For the advice given on FTR and in books, you must make the strategies you have read about sink in. A lot of beginners just (for example) skim over DavSimon's SnG strategy guide, and then they immediately thing they are the Ultimate King of SnGs, then they play 40 or 50 and lose a bunch of money. Then they think 'How the hell did that happen? I read a guide!'. Well I'll tell you why, it's because those people did not let any of the strategies from DavSimon's guide sink in, they did not absorb the strategies and consider how they can apply them to their own game. And that means they learn nothing, and they are still losing players.

So if you've just found FTR, I advise you to read the stickies on the games that apply to you, whether that be MTTs/SnGs etc. But most importantly, make sure the information you have read is really digested so you can really think how to apply it to your own game. As I said before, the mistake I see most often happen to beginners who want to learn more about poker is not really ABSORBING strategies they have read. You may want to re-read a strategy guide or a book if you must just to make sure you can really digest and understand the information (by the way, if you are really not sure what someone means by a point they have made in a guide on FTR, don't hesitate to ask them to explain it to you).

I hope this helps, and remember, apply yourself to your learning of poker!

This is my first post. Hi everyone. I have read the FTR site for a while now. I am a member of a few other forums. So I decided to join this as well.

I like this advice mate. I have been playing for around 6 months. I started on the micro-limits and over the last 6 months have moved up to the $2/4 and $3/6 Limit H-E ring games.

However as I rushed things. I think, I didn't spend the reqired time learning the proper techniques in order to play consistent poker. My results have been up and down. My bankroll has basically stayed the same since my first deposit.

To combat this. I have started a new strategy. I bought a couple of good Limit Hold-Em books and have been learning from them and various internet sites. I have also moved down to the $0.25/0.50 and $.50/1 limits.

In effect. I am re-learning the game. But this time, I am doing it properly and giving myself time to learn proper strategy.

Good Luck all ...

[DickieBets]

Renton,

I've had similar slumps after reading HOH 2.

I only play $5.00 and $10.00 SitnGos on pokerstars and I think the slumps were caused by experimenting with all-in vigorish and pushing too much in the late stages.

I think all-in vigorish is useless in these SitnGos because there is a high probability of getting called. Pushing with sub premium hands (like A-x or pocket pairs) is something which took me longer to realize. I now consider myself lucky if I get away with it once in a game - and my results are improving again.

Martin

[jackvance]

(just want to point out, to avoid confusion, that the above posts are months old)

[aokrongly]

...

[biondino]

Hmm. Are you saying people should have financial goals and seek to fulfil them whatever it takes? Considering your wise words on forms of tilt this seems dangerous. If you run consistently at 5PTBB/100 at $25 and you fancy making $500 a month, then you can set yourself a goal in terms of number of hands played which *should* achieve that (in this case, 20,000 hands).

Having people chase financial targets can be damaging and I know this from depressing personal experience (it hurts to start a month wanting $500 and finishing the month $700 away from your target).

[aokrongly]

...

[bpurvis2]

Awsome post I have been reading several of the MTT post and guides on this site and incorperating them into my game and I have to say soupies post is the one that has gave me the best results I like the part where he says keep your pie hole shut unless your eating pie lol it's very true you don't want to improve a donk or berate his game becuase you'll make him duck and hide or you'll help him step up his level of play which if he does poof there went some money out of your account becuase you ran off at the mouth when a donk gave you a bad beat either shut up or say NH then stack him off later in the tournment if he isn't gone before you can stack him off. His point on tight is right in the first hour couldn't be more precise either I have noticed alot of times that more then 50% of the feild if not 75% of the field is gone after the first hour alot of people just don't know how to play or can't concentrate for more then an hour is why and for that fact they shouldn't be playing in MTT's they should be trying STT's and stepping it up as they are able to concentrate more over long hours.

[dafu]

I read the apply yourself page and I just started my journal today after reading it. I haven't been playing poker for very long. I just got back into playing poker. I learned to play poker in high school with my friends. We played with pennies as "poker chips" I don't know how I did it maybe it was luck but after learning some basic rules from my friends I cleaned them out in my first poker sitting.
Today I was in a free roll and was in the best possible room that you can be in (in my opinion) at first everybody was sitting out then one person sat back down because i think he realized that everybody but me was sitting out. At first I was calling everything and he was folding. I knew he was waiting to hit something but I got greedy. I started making unwise calls and raises. I thought that with the amount of money I was betting that this person would fold because I could possibly have a better pair. I went all in (5493 chips) and needless to say i lost half of it because this only played good hands. I didn't last very long after that because I was still on greedy streak and possibly was a little tilted because I was making these stupid calls and raises (I made myself tilt).
Is there any advice that you guys could give me for the future? Thanks

[celtic123]

Hi, welcome.

Here is my advice.Play the lowest stakes you can.

Read this

http://www.flopturnriver.com/aokrong...ing-Hands.html

Apply it, try not to deviate.

Post questions and Ideas in the beginners forum.Experts will reply to your posts, If your a slow learner like me, the advice will be fuzzy at first, but as time goes by, the fog clears and you will improve.

Read all posts , they are littered with abbreviations and acroynms and the posted hands seem like another language, but stick with it.and you will win money.

[macatac100]

We'll as a beginner I've had my ups & downs.Thanks to FTR and Aokrongly appling yourself storie I've decided to keep with Poker.I was ready to give it up.I had a teariable past few tourneys.After you win those first few,you think your POKER GOD.Then that losing streak comes and you wonder what am I doing here waisting my time. I've been playin Poker stars where I won my first 45 no limit tourney.Now I play at DOYLES,Absolute, and Full Tilt Where I've won a tourney at all of them.I just started playin poker a month and a half ago.I think FTR and all the information in this site will help me go a long way.I'm in the final chapter of my life and hope I can make it profitable for my Family .We'll got more information and some practice games to play.

[datuspoker]

well you can find a little bit of truth everywhere
beginners(and so god will i am one ) make mistakes cause there are beginners
and there is a truth that you want get millionaire by reading a book.
but my opinion is that good books or stickies are warning about that
you cant buy supersystem which is written by doyle brunson and think you will win cause it wont work for the only thing cause the supersystem works only for doyle brunson.
never forget of the image you got on the table.
what helps is reading stickies and if it wont go in the game and you loose analize why it doesn t work.
what mistakes you ve made
for example couple minutes ago i played a tournament
and how it is written in how to's tight at the beginning playing only the better cards i must say i ve played only 2 hands in 45 minutes.
first i had AKs and have to fold them cause of the flop
th second card i ve played was AQ
i bet preflop(1k ) with one call(bigstack 11k) there comes 3 5 j i do a continuation bet (like in the stickies) call
the turn 7 i check he check then there comes the river A i bet he raise i go all in
an see his 2 pairs with 3 and 5
so long the only mistake i did was not to pay enough attention to the SITUATION
but a beginner will never learn it by reading and thinking about books etc.
he only learns it by loosing money

[Crusher10]

I helps playng a lot, get yourself a rakeback deal 2. Break even players are made winning players with an rb deal.

[Keith]

well you can find a little bit of truth everywhere
beginners(and so god will i am one ) make mistakes cause there are beginners
and there is a truth that you want get millionaire by reading a book.
but my opinion is that good books or stickies are warning about that
you cant buy supersystem which is written by doyle brunson and think you will win cause it wont work for the only thing cause the supersystem works only for doyle brunson.
never forget of the image you got on the table.
what helps is reading stickies and if it wont go in the game and you loose analize why it doesn t work.
what mistakes you ve made
for example couple minutes ago i played a tournament
and how it is written in how to's tight at the beginning playing only the better cards i must say i ve played only 2 hands in 45 minutes.
first i had AKs and have to fold them cause of the flop
th second card i ve played was AQ
i bet preflop(1k ) with one call(bigstack 11k) there comes 3 5 j i do a continuation bet (like in the stickies) call
the turn 7 i check he check then there comes the river A i bet he raise i go all in
an see his 2 pairs with 3 and 5
so long the only mistake i did was not to pay enough attention to the SITUATION
but a beginner will never learn it by reading and thinking about books etc.
he only learns it by loosing money

sounds like an excuse for not actually getting down and studying , learning how to improve , analysing your own play, taking advantage of the combined wisdom of thousands of gvery good players as you just need a quick adrenaline fix.
You say that the only mistake you made was not to pay enough attention to the situation. I think there were more fundamental mistakes than that made and it would be interesting if you have any idea what they were? Reading theory would help you to understand your mistakes easier and stop you making them ...not making the same mistakes over and over again and never realising where you are going wrong.

[Crusher10]

well you can find a little bit of truth everywhere
beginners(and so god will i am one ) make mistakes cause there are beginners
and there is a truth that you want get millionaire by reading a book.
but my opinion is that good books or stickies are warning about that
you cant buy supersystem which is written by doyle brunson and think you will win cause it wont work for the only thing cause the supersystem works only for doyle brunson.
never forget of the image you got on the table.
what helps is reading stickies and if it wont go in the game and you loose analize why it doesn t work.
what mistakes you ve made
for example couple minutes ago i played a tournament
and how it is written in how to's tight at the beginning playing only the better cards i must say i ve played only 2 hands in 45 minutes.
first i had AKs and have to fold them cause of the flop
th second card i ve played was AQ
i bet preflop(1k ) with one call(bigstack 11k) there comes 3 5 j i do a continuation bet (like in the stickies) call
the turn 7 i check he check then there comes the river A i bet he raise i go all in
an see his 2 pairs with 3 and 5
so long the only mistake i did was not to pay enough attention to the SITUATION
but a beginner will never learn it by reading and thinking about books etc.
he only learns it by loosing money

sounds like an excuse for not actually getting down and studying , learning how to improve , analysing your own play, taking advantage of the combined wisdom of thousands of gvery good players as you just need a quick adrenaline fix.
You say that the only mistake you made was not to pay enough attention to the situation. I think there were more fundamental mistakes than that made and it would be interesting if you have any idea what they were? Reading theory would help you to understand your mistakes easier and stop you making them ...not making the same mistakes over and over again and never realising where you are going wrong.

Yes, find your leakes and plug em.