Critique my workout please

[Irisheyes]

I'm 25, 185lbs, 5' 8". Have been going to the gym intermittently for maybe 6 months now. I'll go like twice/3x a week for a few weeks in a row then miss 2/3 weeks then go back etc. Pretty sporadic.

10mins on bike
20 mins on cross trainer, weight loss or strength program

3x10 squats with 25kg on each side of the bar
3X10 each leg, lunges with like 8lb dumbbells

3x10 dumbbell bench press with 45lbs dumbells
3x10 lateral raises with 4lbs
3x10 each arm, one arm dumbbell rows with 35lbs
3x10 wavy barbell bicep curls with 24lbs total weights
2x10 tricep pulldowns on the cable machine thingy, 5 blocks weight. (dunno what 1 block weighs though).

3x12 crunches on a ball
3x12 crunches with legs straight up

I try to do this 3x a week. How's it look?

[celtic123]

could you do the same routine without the weights?
all that weight pulling at your bone joints.

[jyms]

If you've been in the gym for 6 months you can actually split up your workouts a bit now. Once your central nervous system adapts to the training it won't really be real effective to do just a full body workout a couple times a week. Your going to need to do a bit more work on each part to get any real effects. You could try splitting upper body and lower body and start doing a few different exercises for the same muscle groups.

If your doing this for weight loss and just some general fitness, I would also do the Cardio after your weights. Save your muscle glycogen (Fuel) for pushing the weights and having the energy to move more and more weight to help build some muscle, then after you have used up most of your stored carbohydrate you can do your cardio and be burning in the fat zone much quicker and your cardio will be more effective. Keep the 10 min warm up but do the longer cardio last.

There is a pretty big thread here somewhere talking a ton about workouts and diet, I would find it and get some info there as well. If you give us some thoughts on your goals it would be easier to put together an actual plan if you don't want to do any research. The amount of information and conflicting views could drive you insane if your trying to figure it out alone.

[BankItDrew]

jyms is the man when it comes to this sort of thing. I plan on hiring him as a personal trainer in 2010.

[jyms]

Here's the other thread.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ed-t65173.html

[wesrman]

Full body workouts are fine imo.

[CoccoBill]

What jyms said.

Also, it depends entirely on what you want to achieve, mass, strength, cardio, stamina, weight loss, just checking out babes and being able to say u go to the gym etc. Each of those require a certain type of training and other things such as proper diet if you want to achieve more than very basic results.

The program you listed looks good for a beginner, but as said you'll plateau quickly. After that doing the routine 2-3 times a week will keep your condition steady but you won't see more than very small improvements after a while.

[Irisheyes]

Jyms thats awesome thanks!

I tried looking at a body building forum for info but most of the stuff I don't understand or else it's just way to advanced and intricate than I'm prepared to be so it's not really applicable

Really my primary goal is just to improve my fitness, energy, health, concentration levels and sleeping patterns. Hopefully with the end result of helping my poker and general motivation.

Of course I can achieve all this with just a general regular workout so I guess my secondary goals are 1) tonedness and sculpture 2) strength. I don't really want to get huge and muscular I don't think but maybe that will change if I get more into it.

I think I will stick with what I am doing for the next little while. I feel like with my sporadic gym attendance I haven't actually given my current workout a really solid run yet. And I guess I've had decent results so far, I mean I started out doing bench presses with the 25lbs.

Ok so I guess for the near future I'll work on keeping up my gym attendance and then look at making a more separated routine.

I'll definitely start doing my cardio last though thanks for that tip!.

[a500lbgorilla]

So what's the difference between a workout of weights then cardio vrs cardio then weights?

[Jack Sawyer]

Compound workouts ftw when you are still a pencilneck
Compound workouts plus extensive cardio ftw (basketball, jogging, jumping rope, intensive swimming etc, not a goddamn stationary bike) when you are a fat pencilneck

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw46.htm


If you are training for sport, at some point you should follow something like Javorek's Power Thrash for explosive power

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
http://staff.jccc.net/ijavorek/mf.htm

[wufwugy]

Hard work + consistency + time = results

A few rules of thumb:

- Never train through injury. It WILL get worse. Do your best to avoid injury by using proper form, not going too heavy, and not overtraining. Overtraining can be difficult for some to recognize, but it will eventually become simple. A few things to look out for are if you're more tired than normal, sleeping worse than normal, or not as hungry as normal. FWIW, I've probably gotten sick about a dozen times from overtraining. I've also trained through injury, and made it so bad that I couldn't even sit on the toilet without pain, and three years and hundreds of hours of bodywork later, and the injuries are still not all better

- When training high intensity, shoot for progressive overload. If you do the same level of intensity/volume your results will be stagnant. Progressive overload simply means gradually increasing collective amount of weight being pressed. So whenever you're feeling good and strong, or every once in a while, try to add five pounds or add a rep or a set to your lifts. When training with weights, the goal is to gradually get stronger. If you don't wanna get 'too big', don't worry about it. You have to actually work pretty hard to get big, and you also have to eat a lot, normally. People also kid themselves in not wanting to get 'too big'. It's virtually impossible to not look better than before by adding lean mass naturally

- Balance the exercises you use. Put simply, do an equal amount of upper body pressing as upper body pulling, and an equal amount of knee dominant and hip dominant lifts. There are a lot of details, and many lifts are not mutually exclusive, but all you really need to know is that if you want to help avoid pain and injury you should try to do an equal level of work for opposing muscle groups. An example is if you do bench press be sure to do something like rows as well. A personal example of mine is in my first year of lifting I only did supine curls, I then got severe nagging pain in my wrists and forearms, I had this pain for quite a while, it would show up during normal daily activities, and it hurt a lot. After a bit of research I discovered that I should have been balancing my supine curls with prone curls (the difference is in the wrist joint), and about a month after I did this the forearm pain went away. It was purely a product of having overdeveloped wrists flexors and underdeveloped wrist extensors.

- You don't need to be strict. You can do tons of different exercises, sets/reps, intensities, splits, etc. You can take time off, you can go light, you can do short workouts or long workouts, you can spend weeks focusing on one area without losing from other areas, etc. Your body does not know what your workout says on paper, it only knows its own physiology and energy systems. Improvements from exercise do not come from following an outline, but by raising the body's collective level of energetic output while providing adequate nutrition to fuel change.

People often get burnt out by not understanding this. They think that they gotta do it all a certain way and if they don't they will not see results. Not so. Physiological and neurological changes in mass and strength come from the body's long term overall demand and supply

[jyms]

So what's the difference between a workout of weights then cardio vrs cardio then weights?

If your doing this for weight loss and just some general fitness, I would also do the Cardio after your weights. Save your muscle glycogen (Fuel) for pushing the weights and having the energy to move more and more weight to help build some muscle, then after you have used up most of your stored carbohydrate you can do your cardio and be burning in the fat zone much quicker and your cardio will be more effective. Keep the 10 min warm up but do the longer cardio last.

Irish, yea BB.com is a complicated sight and the conflicting advice would be like trying to learn poker from 2+2. It;'s all there but you wouldn't have a clue how to sift through it. I tell a lot of beginners to look at http://bodyforlife.com as a good starting point. It's pretty basic, it's one program and will work for anyone starting to intermediate levels. The advice is all there and there are videos showing form for a ton of exercises. The nutrition advice is solid and easy to follow. There are charts to download if you want to help track progress and it explains how to do HIIT cardio and spend lsee time drudging along on a treadmill for better results.

[Irisheyes]

wufwugy thanks for that long post and ty jyms for the link, I'll head over and have a browse.

[sinister1]

So what's the difference between a workout of weights then cardio vrs cardio then weights?

If your doing this for weight loss and just some general fitness, I would also do the Cardio after your weights. Save your muscle glycogen (Fuel) for pushing the weights and having the energy to move more and more weight to help build some muscle, then after you have used up most of your stored carbohydrate you can do your cardio and be burning in the fat zone much quicker and your cardio will be more effective. Keep the 10 min warm up but do the longer cardio last.

Irish, yea BB.com is a complicated sight and the conflicting advice would be like trying to learn poker from 2+2. It;'s all there but you wouldn't have a clue how to sift through it. I tell a lot of beginners to look at http://bodyforlife.com as a good starting point. It's pretty basic, it's one program and will work for anyone starting to intermediate levels. The advice is all there and there are videos showing form for a ton of exercises. The nutrition advice is solid and easy to follow. There are charts to download if you want to help track progress and it explains how to do HIIT cardio and spend lsee time drudging along on a treadmill for better results.

Yeah bodyforlife is pretty good program if you wanna get cut, stay fit, etc. I used that back in 2004, and it helped me to my only 6pack ever. I found that if you want to gain a good amount of muscle mass you have to modify the diet (eat a lot more protein and carbs) and completely alter the workout program. I went from 180ish not in great shape/pretty weak to 160 ripped and a bit stronger to 200 very good shape (no six pack) and fairly strong.

But then came grad school, game over.

[swiggidy]

I don't really want to get huge and muscular

Sorry to pick, but I always laugh when people say this. It's really hard to put on significant muscle weight. You're not going to wake up one day and go "oh fuck I have 22in (55cm) arms, damnit".

Also, on an intermediate level you can change your results just by changing the reps and adjusting weight accordingly. Doing sets of 10 your not going to bulk up much.

[a500lbgorilla]

I don't really want to get huge and muscular

Sorry to pick, but I always laugh when people say this. It's really hard to put on significant muscle weight. You're not going to wake up one day and go "oh fuck I have 22in (55cm) arms, damnit".

Of course not, I don't have a tape-measure anywhere near my bed.

[swiggidy]

I don't really want to get huge and muscular

Sorry to pick, but I always laugh when people say this. It's really hard to put on significant muscle weight. You're not going to wake up one day and go "oh fuck I have 22in (55cm) arms, damnit".

Of course not, I don't have a tape-measure anywhere near my bed.

Use your cock, ldo

[spoonitnow]

I'll ask this here instead of making another thread. Is there an optimal time to take a multi-vitamin in general? First thing in the morning? Right before you go to sleep? With a meal? Between meals?

[Renton]

you could probably do like 3 or 4 compound movements that obsolete all of those lifts, and save yourself like an hour.

[jyms]

The problem with compound lifts is that's where a ton of injuries happen. They are without a doubt the best exercises possible but you really need to exercise good form and keep the weights under control. Unless your actually trying to see how much you can lift, good form and time under tension on the negative portion of the lifts will be the best thing for you.

I don't think any standard workout program should be without the compound lifts, and they should be the center of any day you are in the gym. Other than warm ups and the odd sport specific or injury rehab exercises, I would do the heavy stuff first.

Squats, deadlifts, bench presses, bent rows and overhead presses are best, but not be all end all. As an example, doing heavy squats will destroy your legs and be the best thing for them, but your calves, and hamstrings do not do enough to be fully worked, without actually doing an exercise for these muscles you will become imbalanced and be prone to injury over time. Same for Bench press, the triceps are made up of three distinct heads and doing some work to isolate them is important, as is the posterior delt when doing overhead presses.


Spoon, take it early in the day during your first meal. if your first meal is a fast acting protein for a workout then wait till your first full meal after. Splitting the dosage into two and taking one at dinner will not hurt at all. It's more important to get a good vitamin than when you take it. Forget the "one a day" and buy a good multi-pak vitamin if it's important to you. GNC or the vitamin shoppe has some great options. With vitamins and supplements you get what you pay for.

[Renton]

As an example, doing heavy squats will destroy your legs and be the best thing for them, but your calves, and hamstrings do not do enough to be fully worked, without actually doing an exercise for these muscles you will become imbalanced and be prone to injury over time. Same for Bench press, the triceps are made up of three distinct heads and doing some work to isolate them is important, as is the posterior delt when doing overhead presses.

Wait, really? I thought one of the major benefits to compounds is that they work a chain of muscles in appropriate proportion, i.e. if you do squats for a while your hips, quad, calves, core, etc would develop in perfect proportion with respect to the locomotion of squatting down and driving back up-- and that doing isolation exercises is what creates imbalance.

[jyms]

They do to a point. Untrained individuals tend to have muscle imbalances and that leads to the weakest links getting fatigued first and therefore being the only muscles pushed to failure. So say doing bench press, you have a fairly weak triceps muscles. Your arms may give out before the chest is actually worked to a point of needing repair (muscle growth) It's important to know your body and know what you are doing or have someone who can monitor this stuff because of this. Many people do Bench press and overhead presses and these execises both tax the anterior delt muscle, but without doing the bent rows or some rowing movement you will never work that posterior muscle. There are many people who don't do back exercises or squats (beach bodies lol) and it's important to know what you are missing. All the compounds work together as a unit and work the whole body. Deadlifts will work the hamstrings enough to supplement the squats, bent rows will work the rear delt enough to supplement the overhead presses and so on. The isolation exersises are to bring up lagging parts, the compounds do work the whole body, but it's improtant to know how to have the right form, build up over time so that your not using your strongest muscles to do the lifts and therefore circumventing the reason to do the big 5. That's to move the most weight possible and use the most muscles possible. They will give you the best hormone responses and improve pretty much anything you do physically, so yes they are the al in one exercises when done properly. They just take time to become that good.


The other problem is that in what we define as an in shape and muscular body. Teh neck, calves and the bicep/triceps are all to be the same circumfrance. Certain shapes require different work to balance the body, being right/left handed or certain postures under long periods of time(desk Jockey) all require specific training to improve symmetry and imbalances in order to get to a point where we can work out the whole body in proprtion when doing those lifts.

[wufwugy]

Sometimes it depends on you personally. I only very rarely do iso lifts, but part of that is because I make gains easily and proportionately. I will always gravitate towards a much more old school approach, but reality is that iso lifts should be used simply as variety to keep interest, if anything.

Also, dominating muscle groups in lifts comes from moment arm. This is something I tried to explain in renton's log on 2p2, but they're a bunch of idiots over there. Squats certainly can hit hamstrings hard, but only if they put emphasis on reducing knee movement and keeping hip movement the same, but doing so by changing position of the load by putting more torque on back/hips. The moment arm puts less of the torque on the knee extensors, and more on the back/hip extensors.

But if you use normal full knee movement style squats you will need to balance out with hamstrings by doing something like deadlifts, hyperextensions, glute-ham raises, good mornings, etc

[bigspenda73]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iYBmAVuBns

[Micro2Macro]

Cool thread, seems to be the spot where we ask random questions about working out. I have one, hopefully it's not of any nuisance (I hope I am not derailing. I've been following this thread and skimmed through again now and didn't see this asked, but I apologize if it was covered already and if someone could just quote me to the post answering my question that would be awesome.)

Is there any general rule regarding the order you do your exercises?


Like for example, if I am going to workout arms and back and do the following:

-pull downs
-barbell curls
-incline curls
-hammer curls
-tricep extensions
-bent rows
-chin ups
-pull ups
-dips
-skull crushers

what order is best? that also looks like a hell of a lot for one workout so realistically take off 2-3 exercises I think?

appreciate thoughts on that, ty.

[bigspenda73]

Like for example, if I am going to workout arms and back and do the following:

-pull downs
[insert like 10-15 unecessary exercises all about getting your NOXplode pump on in the arms]

...you'd be pretty fucking stupid

[wufwugy]

Cool thread, seems to be the spot where we ask random questions about working out. I have one, hopefully it's not of any nuisance (I hope I am not derailing. I've been following this thread and skimmed through again now and didn't see this asked, but I apologize if it was covered already and if someone could just quote me to the post answering my question that would be awesome.)

Is there any general rule regarding the order you do your exercises?


Like for example, if I am going to workout arms and back and do the following:

-pull downs
-barbell curls
-incline curls
-hammer curls
-tricep extensions
-bent rows
-chin ups
-pull ups
-dips
-skull crushers

what order is best? that also looks like a hell of a lot for one workout so realistically take off 2-3 exercises I think?

appreciate thoughts on that, ty.

Long post, cliffs at bottom

Do hardest lifts first, then descend into easiest. Other ways of looking at it is do the movements that take the most effort or have the most muscle involvement first, and the least last; or the movements with the most spinal activity/stabilization first, and least last. Or you could do the movement/bodypart that is most important to you first, and least important last.

Some will describe this as the 80/20 rule i.e. 80% of your results come from the first 20% of your workout

And FWIW, that's a ton of stuff in one workout. It's not inherently too much, if that's what you want to do it can be made to work relatively well, but in some ways it's redundant. But that's the thing, building mass IS redundant. It's about adding more of the 'same' i.e. more intensity and more volume. Nonetheless, without going on a rabbit trail, if you don't want to do 10 different exercises in one workout, rest assured that you don't have to. My personal favorite, by far, is one lift a day.

Also, back/arms day is rather imbalanced. The exercises consist of 7 for biceps, 3 for triceps, 5 for wrist flexors, 2-4 for sternal pecs (depending on how you do them), 3-5 for lats, low-mid traps, posterior delts (depending on how they're done, upper traps), and 1 for clavicle pecs and anterior delts

As you can see, there's some imbalance there. Now, that's absolutely fine since, like I said before, it's about long-term tension, not short-term. A few weeks of this could be just fine if it was eventually balanced out by a few weeks of more tricep, upper back, and upper chest/shoulder dominant stuff.

Something that comes as a great benefit to realize is that workouts can and should change. Variety is not only the spice of life, but the spice of exercise. I could make a program with a back/arms day with all those lifts work very well, but I wouldn't want to do it month after month after month

Also, if you wanna do all those lifts in one workout, probably the best approach would be to focus on biceps/elbow flexion while making all other bodyparts secondary. What this means is going heavy on the curl stuff, but then medium or light on everything else. Just because you're lifting doesn't mean you have to lift heavy. In fact, advanced lifters need to spend a lot of time splitting up intensity i.e. go heavy for one lift then light on all others, or heavy for one workout then light for others. Anyways, I don't really wanna go into details about how you could fit all those into one workout because really I'd just cut most of it, and actually optimizing the workouts is not something you could do just by reading a few paragraphs of my thoughts.

Another thing to note when doing multiple exercises for one bodypart is to split them up so you get more rest between lifts i.e. do a bicep movement then a tricep movement then a bicep movement etc etc. You can do this lots of different ways, like finishing all sets for one movement then moving to next or by supersetting two different movements (one set of one then one set of other then back to next set of the first and on)



Cliff notes: Just do one exercise per bodypart per workout. Adjust intensity/volume via adjusting load and set/reps, not by adjusting amount of movements. You can get big lats by doing nothing but one kind of pullup, or big triceps by doing nothing but one kind of press; you just gotta make sure the overall time under tension is there



Edit: Spenda basically got it right. The thing is that lots of stuff actually works. Super complicated workouts work, and super simple ones work. This is because it's not the paper that counts, but the the physiology behind gradual, collective increases in muscular tension/activity.

I would describe successful weight training as understanding a host of fundamental factors, and then just doing whatever the hell you want to do, as long as they meet those factors (like warding off injury, maintaining balancing, increasing load, adequate rest, etc). I don't even use programs anymore. Once I hit an advanced level of development I also had a rather strong level of theoretical understanding, and I found that I stopped following actual programs, and just doing whatever the hell I wanted, and as long as I followed the theory behind it all, it worked

[bigspenda73]

btw didn't mean to exclude pull downs, they're obviously pretty worthless as well

exercises from that list I like:

-dips
-chins
-bent over rows

[jyms]

There are a ton of workout programs on the net, find one, use it, and then decide if you want to change it. Anything revolving around 2 or 3 day splits, push/pull or full body workouts is fine. You will be amazed at what you start to feel and will know what to do. If your starting off, the exercises that move the most weight will do you the most good and work fastest. It's not a contest, so forget about trying to use wights that are too heavy, work through the full range of motion and lower the weights under control, it will do you way more good. All the muscle building is brought about by the tearing of the muscles in the eccentric portion of the lift, so cheating through lowering the weights just to throw them up with momentum is just burning fuel and not getting you anywhere.

Look up HIIT cardio or interval training and only do this stuff for cardio. Forget that long slow shit and walking on treadmills for hours a week. Learn to cook real food and eat more protein than anything else and you will do a lot of changes in a short time. When it's time to change it up, you will know, then ask the hard questions.

[Micro2Macro]

Cool, thanks for the replies.

I've been going to the gym for a few months now and have had pretty decent results (my brother who is super into all this shit has helped me a lot, though he isn't a qualified trainer I just mimic what he does alot (though I don't think he really does what I outlined here) since he's all ripped and such and everyone thinks he's on steroids - which he isn't.

In that list of exercises I would usually do only 6 or so, mixing it up each week. (btw this isn't all I do, I do chest, legs etc on other days)

So today I did:

pull downs (for lats right)
chin ups
tricep extensions
bar curls
bent over rows
dips

As far as cardio goes the 'doctor' at the gym told me it is basically useless for me to bother due to my low body fat % and high vo2 max because my goal isn't to lose any weight. They tried to get me going with a trainer, which I really would like since all this stuff seems overwhelming/complex/ and a lot to take in..just gonna wait till I can afford it I guess.

As for looking for a program on the web, that's a damn good idea since I could use an outline to follow given my noobness to weight training.

As for educating myself on theories etc in regards to proper weightlifting, are there any magazines or books anyone would recommend? I learn pretty well by reading/seeing pictures etc so getting a subscription to a good magazine might be worthwhile for me, and less costly than a trainer.

[kiwiMark]

As far as cardio goes the 'doctor' at the gym told me it is basically useless for me to bother due to my low body fat % and high vo2 max because my goal isn't to lose any weight.

You'll regret this when the zombies arrive. Plus cardio feels so good after.

[Dragon Slayer]

The main thing with fitness is to decide what your ultimate goals are. You need to train certain ways if you want to look like a body builder, have insane cardio, lose fat etc. Of course ANY exercise is better than none. Some training methods that I thought were ridiculous back when I was only concerned about muscle size/shape I use every week now. But my goals have changed a lot. My experience with people is that for some reason they find it hard to honest and say "hey I want 17 inch arms" or "I need to lose 60 pounds".

[bigspenda73]

don't do pulldowns, seriously if you can actually do chins/pull-ups there's just no reason to do pulldowns, you need a horizontal row in your back day, I like seated cable rows.

[Micro2Macro]

don't do pulldowns, seriously if you can actually do chins/pull-ups there's just no reason to do pulldowns, you need a horizontal row in your back day, I like seated cable rows.

what's wrong with pulldowns?

and yeah it looks like I skipped horizontal rows, which I am guessing are one of the better back exercises?

[bigspenda73]

if you're doing chins/pulls what's the point? Those exercises are clearly superior to pulldowns.

[wesrman]

Pull downs are for people that cant do pull ups.

Rosstraining FTW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hk9z1YVcE

[wufwugy]

Don't worry about the hatin on pulldowns, they're fine.

I could go into about a lengthy post explaining where all this hatin comes from (functional training hype, core training hype, anti-machine hype, redundancy, ease of cheating, falsely inflating load, etc) but I won't because I don't wanna type it, and nobody wants to read it

Pudz does pulldowns

[wufwugy]

Cool, thanks for the replies.

I've been going to the gym for a few months now and have had pretty decent results (my brother who is super into all this shit has helped me a lot, though he isn't a qualified trainer I just mimic what he does alot (though I don't think he really does what I outlined here) since he's all ripped and such and everyone thinks he's on steroids - which he isn't.

In that list of exercises I would usually do only 6 or so, mixing it up each week. (btw this isn't all I do, I do chest, legs etc on other days)

So today I did:

pull downs (for lats right)
chin ups
tricep extensions
bar curls
bent over rows
dips

As far as cardio goes the 'doctor' at the gym told me it is basically useless for me to bother due to my low body fat % and high vo2 max because my goal isn't to lose any weight. They tried to get me going with a trainer, which I really would like since all this stuff seems overwhelming/complex/ and a lot to take in..just gonna wait till I can afford it I guess.

As for looking for a program on the web, that's a damn good idea since I could use an outline to follow given my noobness to weight training.

As for educating myself on theories etc in regards to proper weightlifting, are there any magazines or books anyone would recommend? I learn pretty well by reading/seeing pictures etc so getting a subscription to a good magazine might be worthwhile for me, and less costly than a trainer.

Don't get a trainer unless you know one who knows what they're doing. Many don't, but some do. Jyms seems like one of the good ones, but they're rare.

Don't do cardio for the sake of cardio. Do it because you enjoy it, and make it an activity like basketball or racquetball. More important, however, is what has become dubbed 'GPP' (general physical preparedness), and is basically anaerobic/high intensity endurance. Anaerobic exercise is substantially more powerful than aerobic when it comes to bang for buck, but they are different energy systems, and aerobics does have its uses, albeit many cardio bunnies would find great benefit in dropping some cardio and replacing it with high intensity exercise like heavy lifting or sprinting.

As far as source information goes, elitefts.com may be the best bang for buck source for articles and QnA. It's been a while since I've looked around there, but it started as a hardcore powerlifting source, and when it comes to the internet, the best information usually comes from powerlifting type boards.

Also, bent over rows are horizontal rows

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. Strength training is a subject I quite enjoy

[jyms]

I do pull downs becaue of having several shoulder dislocations years ago. I can't pull with my shoulders straight up because my sholder socket is loose even after two surgeries. I have to lean back and do pull downs at a slight angle and very controlled. I make up for it witha lot of pulling movements and different grips.

[Micro2Macro]

Don't get a trainer unless you know one who knows what they're doing. Many don't, but some do. Jyms seems like one of the good ones, but they're rare.

Don't do cardio for the sake of cardio. Do it because you enjoy it, and make it an activity like basketball or racquetball. More important, however, is what has become dubbed 'GPP' (general physical preparedness), and is basically anaerobic/high intensity endurance. Anaerobic exercise is substantially more powerful than aerobic when it comes to bang for buck, but they are different energy systems, and aerobics does have its uses, albeit many cardio bunnies would find great benefit in dropping some cardio and replacing it with high intensity exercise like heavy lifting or sprinting.

As far as source information goes, elitefts.com may be the best bang for buck source for articles and QnA. It's been a while since I've looked around there, but it started as a hardcore powerlifting source, and when it comes to the internet, the best information usually comes from powerlifting type boards.

Also, bent over rows are horizontal rows

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. Strength training is a subject I quite enjoy

Thanks for the info, I'll have to check out that site for sure.

As for a trainer, I know that one of them at the gym I go to is really good (he's in body building magazines, has sponsors etc. everyone says good things about him) but as for the rest I'm not sure.

Jyms are you (still?) working as a personal trainer or if not plan on it in the future?

[jyms]

I am getting back into shape and plan to get re-certified in January. I haven't trained anyone as a job for a couple years. Although I have helped quite a few people get into better shape than I have been for 6-7 years. I was never actually certified/recognized in Canada even when I worked as a trainer for almost 4 years FT and PT, and my old cert. ACE is now obsolete/useless. It's no longer even worht having those letters after your name.

FWIW I plan to be CanFitPRo certified then I am getting my Older adults fitness certification pretty much back to back. I want to take the nutrition licence exam too without actually taking the course and maybe do the NASM or Poloquin Strength program too in the future. I would hope that will be enough to find the job I want.

[bigspenda73]

Pudz does pulldowns

using anyone who is roided out of their mind as an example is pretty useless. I see enormous guys lifting pansy ass weight every day in my gym.