1/2: go red line, part 3

[pocketfours]

Villain is a red pro abc tag. Plays very solid but pretty weak and uncreative. He seems to be a decent hand reader. We have a lot of hands together and I've never been caught too much out of line. He has tried to bluff catch a few times vs me but I've had it every time.

I don't think he can have a boat here, he's just too uncreative for taking this line with a boat. He has a flush like pretty much always. I hate that I have to throw in so much money, but I just feel like I need to empty the clip or give up and there's almost $200 out there.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($277.90)
MP ($416.55)
CO ($471.80)
Button ($90.40)
SB ($200)
Hero (BB) ($492.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, J
2 folds, CO bets $6, 1 fold, SB calls $5, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($18) 4, 6, J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, CO calls $14, 1 fold

Turn: ($46) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $36, CO calls $36

River: ($118) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $76, Hero raises to $436.20 (All-In)


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I didn't really want to post this because it will look like total spewmadness, but I'm following intuition and it tells me to do some weird shit sometimes. Villain in this one is 25/20/1.4 with 1% 3bet, 50% fold to 3bet. Again, based on timing sizing etc I don't think he has much. If he has a flushy then gg, but I think he's fos.

I might or might not bet the turn with a flushdraw but I'm sure this guy won't think about that. I thought the small cbet + c/c turn would look like a draw in his mind.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($532.15)
SB ($487.80)
Hero (BB) ($508.10)
UTG ($303.55)
MP ($211.30)
CO ($211)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 2
3 folds, Button bets $5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, Button calls $15

Flop: ($41) 3, 8, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $18, Button calls $18

Turn: ($77) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $55, Hero calls $55

River: ($187) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $111, Hero raises to $415.10 (All-In)


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I guess this is very marginal. Table full of crazy 3betting bastards. Both villains with around 20% 3bet. Couldn't fold a good pair here with all that dead money lying around. Besides BB just might do a very bad fold.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($313.80)
Hero (UTG) ($204.35)
MP ($471.10)
CO ($1000.05)
Button ($312.50)
SB ($330.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7, 7
Hero bets $7, 1 fold, CO raises to $20, Button calls $20, 1 fold, BB raises to $70, Hero raises to $204.35 (All-In)

[griffey24]

This is in reference to all of your red-line threads, not just this one. But using hand 1 here as an example: why don't you try getting people off hands like this when they have weak wide ranges as opposed to narrow strong ranges?

So many of these hands you're trying to get people off big hands.. straights.. flushes.. it's just not happening.

hand 2: why not just bet bet bet if you wanna bluff him off his hand? At least its far more credible. Turn c/c smells of a weak hand.. so turn+river just looks like "weak hand c/c'ing turn and trying to bluff the flush card when it clearly can't call". Most people would assume that you'd barrel hearts here.. you're not getting credit for that. If he's b/f.. you probably have the best hand (vs AJ, AQ, KQ or some nonsense)

hand 3: So you open UTG (strong).. and you get 3bet (strong).. and he gets cold called (very strong).. and he gets 4bet (lol strong).. and you want to shove? I suppose your best case scenario is that somehow CO/BTN fold pairs like QQ/JJ and you iso with BB's AK. Though that's a ridiculously optimistic scenario.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I think in both these hands you made very poor decisions if your goal is red line on early streets.

Hand 1: By betting the flop your building a pot with a hand your likely going to have to fold if either player puts his stack in. That is very bad for your red line. C/c the flop seems superior here.

Hand 2: By check calling the turn you have lost most of your ability to profitably bluff. I'd just bet 3 streets if you wanted to bluff here. I really like your flop bet sizing.

Hand 3: Come on this is a clear fold.

[pocketfours]

hand 3: So you open UTG (strong).. and you get 3bet (strong).. and he gets cold called (very strong).. and he gets 4bet (lol strong).. and you want to shove? I suppose your best case scenario is that somehow CO/BTN fold pairs like QQ/JJ and you iso with BB's AK. Though that's a ridiculously optimistic scenario.

It's not optimistic or ridiculous at all. CO/BTN will ALMOST CERTAINLY fold QQ and even AK since they are over 150bb deep vs BB and they aren't getting anywhere near the proper odds vs perceived ranges. BB is a SPEWMONKEY, he probably has 57o or something else that is drawing stone dead vs my sevens. Checkmate.

If you don't see it then fold, that's a perfectly fine play.

[pocketfours]

Hand 1: By betting the flop your building a pot with a hand your likely going to have to fold if either player puts his stack in. That is very bad for your red line. C/c the flop seems superior here.

Hand 2: By check calling the turn you have lost most of your ability to profitably bluff. I'd just bet 3 streets if you wanted to bluff here. I really like your flop bet sizing.

Thanks for the input. I like a lead in hand one because this villain is never going to bluffraise me and he does not cbet his air in 3way pots.

In hand 2 I call the turn because I think I have the best hand. I could even c/c the river but I think shoving is just slightly better.