ITT wuf discusses womenz

[BankItDrew]

Thesis: Women should be treated equally. Equally with other women.

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO

[wufwugy]

What would you like to know?

[BennyLaRue]

Where all da white wimmenz at?

[BankItDrew]

1) Describe your dream womenz (ethnicity, education, skillz, etc.)
2) Do you put womenz on a pedestal?
3) Why do you perceive them as objects?
4) Why do you think they are dumb? (I assume you do)

[BennyLaRue]

If you think you are smarter than wimmenz, why do you let them get you all emo?

[bikes]

wimmenz are evil.

[kiwiMark]

in while the posts are still short enough to hold my attention!

[bigred]

what are wimenz like?

[wufwugy]

1) Describe your dream womenz (ethnicity, education, skillz, etc.)

I'm unsure. I feel that 'dream' is unachievable given humans' natural variety and often dillemmatic desires and how things always change. We're far more pleased to settle than we realize. In practice, my dream woman was one of the many I've fallen for, in hypothesis, my dream woman is some kind of crazy idea that's not possible

2) Do you put womenz on a pedestal?

Probably not moreso than anybody else. I do, however, put myself on a ridiculously high standard that has caused me a whole lot of problems. Its allowed me to avoid many problems, but itself creates unforeseeable problems

3) Why do you perceive them as objects?

I don't do so more than any other man. The difference is that I acknowledge it. Male sexual desires are primarily one of objectification in the first place. No denying that. On the flip side, some of my objectification of women has to do with my experiences with the ones I'm most sexually attracted to being morons who go out of their way to make terrible decisions that ruin their lives and everybody's around them

Another thing to note is that males' interest in women is primarily one of sexual gratification. Many people don't like to acknowledge this, but it's true. Humans are very dynamic, so other factors can arise, but the fact remains that if sex was nonexistent, most men wouldn't even bother with women in the first place.

4) Why do you think they are dumb? (I assume you do)

I don't. Women have equal intellectual capacity as men. However, this is often confused due to each gender's role in society, how we evolved for that and how it plays out in our social construct

Here's one example

Women are biologically and sociologically driven to manipulate relationships more than men. This is primarily because our species has mostly operated under the male = superior, women = inferior dynamic. What this has done has created a paradigm in which men get their way by being direct and forceful, yet women get their way by being manipulative and secretive. Throughout our evolution, men have not had as much of a reason to misdirect as women have. I'm not using this to insult women, just laying down how it is. This is also one way to explain why men are more violent and physically destructive than women

OTOH, in some ways women tend to gravitate towards intellect that we classify as 'dumb'. This is partly because women tend to be more emotionally driven over a wider range of topics than men. This isn't intellectual inferiority by any means, it just appears so since we tend to equate intellect with logistics. There are very definite sociological factors that neuroscientists have identified to cause any discrepancies in male/female intellect, and they're only that, social issues. I have many complaints about women, but innate intellectual inferiority is not one of them because it's not true


As I will always do when things are related in some way to biology, evolution doesn't care for how well things work, but just that they do work and perpetuate that quality. This in itself is amoral, and effects into some immoral and really bad shit. Everybody likes to live in a fairy tale where men and women are equals in every way and everybody lives happily ever after. Reality is much more unfair and cruel than that.

[wufwugy]

If you think you are smarter than wimmenz, why do you let them get you all emo?

Any emoness I have over women is not because of what I've learned about them, but what they've taught me about myself. It was hard to overcome at first

[kiwiMark]

in while the posts are still short enough to hold my attention!

out

[Penneywize]

I'm unsure. I feel that 'dream' is unachievable given humans' natural variety and often dillemmatic desires and how things always change. We're far more pleased to settle than we realize. In practice, my dream woman was one of the many I've fallen for, in hypothesis, my dream woman is some kind of crazy idea that's not possible


Probably not moreso than anybody else. I do, however, put myself on a ridiculously high standard that has caused me a whole lot of problems. Its allowed me to avoid many problems, but itself creates unforeseeable problems


I don't do so more than any other man. The difference is that I acknowledge it. Male sexual desires are primarily one of objectification in the first place. No denying that. On the flip side, some of my objectification of women has to do with my experiences with the ones I'm most sexually attracted to being morons who go out of their way to make terrible decisions that ruin their lives and everybody's around them

Another thing to note is that males' interest in women is primarily one of sexual gratification. Many people don't like to acknowledge this, but it's true. Humans are very dynamic, so other factors can arise, but the fact remains that if sex was nonexistent, most men wouldn't even bother with women in the first place.


I don't. Women have equal intellectual capacity as men. However, this is often confused due to each gender's role in society, how we evolved for that and how it plays out in our social construct

Here's one example

Women are biologically and sociologically driven to manipulate relationships more than men. This is primarily because our species has mostly operated under the male = superior, women = inferior dynamic. What this has done has created a paradigm in which men get their way by being direct and forceful, yet women get their way by being manipulative and secretive. Throughout our evolution, men have not had as much of a reason to misdirect as women have. I'm not using this to insult women, just laying down how it is. This is also one way to explain why men are more violent and physically destructive than women

OTOH, in some ways women tend to gravitate towards intellect that we classify as 'dumb'. This is partly because women tend to be more emotionally driven over a wider range of topics than men. This isn't intellectual inferiority by any means, it just appears so since we tend to equate intellect with logistics. There are very definite sociological factors that neuroscientists have identified to cause any discrepancies in male/female intellect, and they're only that, social issues. I have many complaints about women, but innate intellectual inferiority is not one of them because it's not true


As I will always do when things are related in some way to biology, evolution doesn't care for how well things work, but just that they do work and perpetuate that quality. This in itself is amoral, and effects into some immoral and really bad shit. Everybody likes to live in a fairy tale where men and women are equals in every way and everybody lives happily ever after. Reality is much more unfair and cruel than that.

but wuf, tell us how you really feel

[Chelle]

women belong in the kitchen.

[d0zer]

why oh why would anyone ever encourage wuff-wuggy to go on some absurd, pretentious, self-indulgent rant?

[spoonitnow]

women belong in the kitchen.

Yes, all 5 of you.

[BankItDrew]

why oh why would anyone ever encourage wuff-wuggy to go on some absurd, pretentious, self-indulgent rant?

I find them interesting and enlightening.

[Chelle]

Yes, all 5 of you.

[spoonitnow]

fyp

[wufwugy]

why oh why would anyone ever encourage wuff-wuggy to go on some absurd, pretentious, self-indulgent rant?

you got one of the four descriptions correct

[Ash256]

Any emoness I have over women is not because of what I've learned about them, but what they've taught me about myself. It was hard to overcome at first

wow. sick point

[d0zer]

For some reason I've decided to actually respond seriously to one of your posts. Something's in the air I suppose.

evolution doesn't care for how well things work, but just that they do work and perpetuate that quality. This in itself is amoral, and effects into some immoral and really bad shit.

I really don't believe that's necessarily the case. Sure there are enough examples of it, but our evolution has still in a lot of senses produced a very malleable palette that can easily result in either end of the morality spectrum. If you had just put the word "can" before "effects"...

That's the only overt issue I had with your post, but I find that in your posts there's a theme of cold utility towards women. I don't know how much you're trolling, but you never mention factors such as compatibility on non-physical levels, general level of consciousness, open-mindedness, an ability to communicate openly, ... -- things infinitely more important that attractiveness for a relationship lasting longer than the honeymoon phase. You sound almost like you want a slightly more responsive realdoll.

You emphasize the gender differences so much that it's almost like you've forgotten that men and women belong to the same species, and as such have more similarities than differences. This is a common theme in society so it's not surprising. I'm all for understanding gender differences, but that theme taken to an extreme could result in alienation that's detrimental to male-female relationships.

Which I guess is only important if you're looking for something more than to fuck & clean up after you.

[6spark6]

I really don't believe that's necessarily the case. Sure there are enough examples of it, but our evolution has still in a lot of senses produced a very malleable palette that can easily result in either end of the morality spectrum. If you had just put the word "can" before "effects"...
>>Some works the same as can in this instance. Since some means not all.


That's the only overt issue I had with your post, but I find that in your posts there's a theme of cold utility towards women.
>>From what I've seen (which isn't all that much), the cold utilitarian theme runs rampant through wuf's posts. Not just toward women.

I don't know how much you're trolling, but you never mention factors such as compatibility on non-physical levels, general level of consciousness, open-mindedness, an ability to communicate openly, ... -- things infinitely more important that attractiveness for a relationship lasting longer than the honeymoon phase. You sound almost like you want a slightly more responsive realdoll.
>>I actually don't think he's trolling (I do think you are however). And he already stated that the women that he likes, generally lack these attributes. I'm not sure if you were trying to re-iterate or what. It's obvious that he likes attractive women that know they are attractive, and are not afraid to use that to their benefit. He's gotten burned, probably from over-committing himself to one, who walked away, and has seen that theme occur a few times. Therefore, he has removed emotion from them, as he cannot lose what he has not committed. I don't think he "hates women" or even "looks down" on women. I think he just dates ditzy supermodel wannabe types.

You emphasize the gender differences so much that it's almost like you've forgotten that men and women belong to the same species, and as such have more similarities than differences. This is a common theme in society so it's not surprising. I'm all for understanding gender differences, but that theme taken to an extreme could result in alienation that's detrimental to male-female relationships.
>>He refers to "our species" in this post. And then states the differences. Also, he was kind of prompted questions that framed the differences and not the similarities. And, anything taken to the extreme is detrimental. Too much water can kill you. Next point.

Which I guess is only important if you're looking for something more than to fuck & clean up after you.
>>LOL. See, you weren't really responding in an intellectual context. You were pseudo-opposing his view simply because it framed yourself as a more "moral person" (I.E. "I want something more than someone to fuck and clean up after me"). Your points were pretty much already established and all you did was frame yourself as the good guy. Which, actually makes you the bad guy (as far as morality is concerned) and wuf the good guy, since you are manipulating others' point of view for your own benefit, and he was simply stating his views after being prompted. Right?

Or maybe I'm misreading your hand.

Also...
"Any emoness I have over women is not because of what I've learned about them, but what they've taught me about myself. It was hard to overcome at first "

This is golden.

[d0zer]

well now that some bonk who doesn't know how to quote properly has chimed in to suck wuf's dick...

[a500lbgorilla]

daven, you sound grumpy.

[d0zer]

Omg two serious posts from me in one day! I'm not actually trolling. Well maybe I just can't help myself and there's an undercurrent of troll in everything I type on the internets (damnu internets for warping my brain), but this is as serious as I get.

>>LOL. See, you weren't really responding in an intellectual context. You were pseudo-opposing his view simply because it framed yourself as a more "moral person" (I.E. "I want something more than someone to fuck and clean up after me"). Your points were pretty much already established and all you did was frame yourself as the good guy. Which, actually makes you the bad guy (as far as morality is concerned) and wuf the good guy, since you are manipulating others' point of view for your own benefit, and he was simply stating his views after being prompted. Right?

Or maybe I'm misreading your hand.

Well you seem to be assuming that I'm just being a moralistic son of bitch for the sake of opposing wuf's non-PC view on women, where I'm really not. I agree with him more than I'd generally care to admit.

I have absolutely no moral qualms with wuf pursuing vapid relationships with vapid women as long as there's at least an unspoken agreement of the arrangement.

What I'm suggesting is that vapid relationships are non-optimal. The differences between men and women inevitably lead to deficiencies in areas for both genders, and when you have a strong partner who's actually willing to challenge you and grow with you, you both evolve as individuals faster and in ways that i suspect may be impossible alone.

Unfortunately these relationships seem rare, but they do exist and are absolutely willing to pursue. Vapid relationships are absolutely safer, easier, more convenient -- but like a lot of things in life nothing really worth having comes easy.

I'm not ignoring the animalistic urges to fuck hot bitchez -- that's well established, but we humans pride ourselves on our 'higher brains' too much to ignore them, and relationships is just another way to nurture them.

[flomo]

i was hoping to see some tits in this tread.

[wufwugy]

As far as I'm concerned, humans have by far the most invasive and weird sexual appetite of all organisms. There are a few interesting reasons why this would be the case. A few examples

In the animal kingdom, the prevailing dynamic is that the egg-carrier (female) does all the mate selecting while the seed provider (male) does no selecting. If you watched Planet Earth you would have seen this dynamic with a species of bird where the female is bland and boring, while the male is colorful and pretty and puts on an epic show to woo her. She discards whomever she wants and goes with the one she likes the most. In pack animals, it's similar. The males compete for the females by beating each other up, then the females choose the one that comes out on top.

The reason this is interesting is because this dynamic has flipped topsy turvy in some ways with regards to humans. The reason that dynamic exists in the animal kingdom is due to the fact that the holder of the most important resources for the long term survival of the species becomes the chooser i.e. egg-carrier. But in humans, the egg is no longer the most important resource, but things like social and power status, income, personality, etc have become an even more significant resource. What this has done has shifted much of the choosing from the female to the male, and we see this by ways of things like females becoming very physically attractive and vying for attention. In no or few other species do the females vie for attention, but in humans, it's ALL about that.

But this is contrasted by our earlier evolution of sexual selection, and IMO creates some very weird and hard to cope with sexual dilemmas. And that's not all. Human super slow gestation and maturity rate has really thrown relationships into weird territory. In the animal kingdom, it's simple. One side of selection, fast maturity of offspring. But in the human world, we have contradicting levels of selection, gestation and maturity of offspring that completely changes how both genders need to interact with each other in order to propagate the species. This is all very exacerbated in modern culture of large cities as well. We evolved to know only a handful of possible mates in our lifetimes, but our cultures bombard us with literally infinite numbers of possible mates.

I think that if you examine human sexuality, it becomes apparent that it evolved in such a way that it causes huge unavoidable problems for the species. It does things like make us fall in love, but then ceases release of the chemical that provides us with that love at some point after we've committed. Cruelty, IMO

[6spark6]

Well I had typed up a post that went through point by point, but the session timed out due to my boss pestering me. So I will summarize.

1) I am assuming that you are a moralist because of the words you chose. If you had said, "I have no moral qualm but I doubt that this is optimal", you wouldn't have garnered a response. The subtle jab at the end and the fact that you said "overt issue" must have both led me astray. The fact that your only correction to the "overt issue" with his grammar was essentially the same thing, was another red herring.

2) I am aware of the quote button, but its simply easier to edit it this way.

3)I'm not dick riding, I simply understand his perspective, and dislike people taking the moral high-ground, since that move in itself removes you from the race for morality.

4)I agree. I believe that it is non-optimal (that made me lawl btw) as well.

5)An agreement of the arrangement? "Yo bitch, ima hit dat, then yous gonna make me a sammich and leave." I thought the arrangement was the agreement. If you don't agree with the arrangement, you leave...and there isn't an arrangement any more.

6) I don't think that being in a real relationship makes you "evolve faster and in ways that......", though I do believe it gives you something.

7) Some tits (4u flomo)

[bikes]

[rong]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Warpe]

Iron Man is a superhero.
Iron Woman is a command.

[bigred]

Iron Man is a superhero.
Iron Woman is a command.

Nice!

[Lukie]

one of these days we're going to have a thread where we talk about the practical side of women, how to attract them, sleep with them, date them, etc.

there will be no in depth abstract evolution stuff, at least not beyond the extent it's necessary to understand why women are attracted to men with attributes like status, wealth, height, social skills, and confidence.

until then, i'll probably have to re-read this one a few times before i can grasp my head around it.

[Lukie]

i was hoping to see some tits in this tread.

you and me both

[wufwugy]

there will be no in depth abstract evolution stuff, at least not beyond the extent it's necessary to understand why women are attracted to men with attributes like status, wealth, height, social skills, and confidence.

ez game

1. have good hygiene
2. have your own style, be confident in what you want and what you do
3. go for it
4. profit

If, however, you're looking for deeper affection, it then becomes about adding actions that feed womens' emotions. Tap into a woman's emotions and she'll eat out of your hand. This is slightly more complicated, but only slightly. Basically just adding to the aforementioned list things like unpredictability, keeping her competing for your affection, taking time to get close intimately in a wide variety of ways, and showing her that you understand how she's feeling


Logistically speaking, attracting women is the easiest thing in the history of ease. The hard part is learning self-discipline to get yourself in the right situation to start then to develop that situation

This is part of why it irritates me when guys around here settle for ugly chicks. It's ALL about simply thinking you're worth it, then hot chicks become the new ugly chicks because it's the actions that come from men who 'think they're worth it' which they're actually attracted to. Women are attracted to illusions and presentation. Similar can be said about men, but different illusions

[wufwugy]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/...3235fccc_b.jpg

nsfw tits

no img tags to keep ragnars head from asploding

[BankItDrew]

This is part of why it irritates me when guys around here settle for ugly chicks. It's ALL about simply thinking you're worth it,

I think I'm an awesome catch, my problem is portraying this thought to women.

Also, your link does not compute. Plz fix.

[wufwugy]

yeah but do you act like you're awesome

link should work now

[BankItDrew]

Awesome link

And no, probably not.

[wufwugy]

Awesome link

And no, probably not.

See that's the thing, you just have to act it

Just like how men are attracted to the appearance of beauty and sexuality yet often don't notice or care about the 'truth' behind that, women are attracted to the appearance of confidence and worth yet they rarely ever stop to wonder why. It's the reason douchebags always have hot chicks. They're worthless and retarded, but they get the chicks simply because they have that one thing that makes women wet; a high sense of self-worth and self-deservedness.

With regards to initial attraction, just like it doesn't really matter to a man if a woman's beauty is 'real' or for good purpose, it doesn't matter to a woman if a man's confidence is real or for good purpose. They can't tell that a guy who acts like he's god's gift to the world thinks so because he's an imbecile with no introspection, all they know is that they're attracted to it

The next time you see a chick with a nice body, nice ass, great tits, pretty face, whatever, and you think to yourself that you're attracted to her, keep in mind that it's virtually the same thing with women when they see men with confidence and control.

Act like you know exactly what you want and will do what it takes to get it, act like you know and love who you are, have some semblance of disposable income, have good hygiene, make your style your own, be your own boss and don't be entirely predictable, and women no can defend

[BankItDrew]

But fat chicks give good head.

lol half joking there

Thanks Neil Strauss.

[d0zer]

It's the reason douchebags always have hot chicks. They're worthless and retarded, but they get the chicks simply because they have that one thing that makes women wet; a high sense of self-worth and self-deservedness.

Confident douchebags can land hot chicks, but they can't land hot chicks that are actually worth having (by my standards). They can land hot superficial, vapid, douchebag chicks.

Any reasonably mature, intelligent woman that's actually worth having beyond a fuck can easily sniff out a douchebag and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole unless they're drunk & looking for a one-night stand.

But this brings us back to the topic of vapid relationships, which you seem perfectly fine with -- so I guess it's moot.

[6spark6]

Confident douchebags can land hot chicks, but they can't land hot chicks that are actually worth having (by my standards). They can land hot superficial, vapid, douchebag chicks.

Any reasonably mature, intelligent woman that's actually worth having beyond a fuck can easily sniff out a douchebag and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole unless they're drunk & looking for a one-night stand.

But this brings us back to the topic of vapid relationships, which you seem perfectly fine with -- so I guess it's moot.

LAWLZ. If this doesn't scream "I think I'm better than you because I don't sleep with vapid chicks", I dunno what does.

The thing is, you're wrong. Not about the being better than wuf, that part I cannot comment on since I know neither wuf nor you. But about the Mature, intelligent women blahblahblah.

That sounds real nice and fairy tale-ish and all, but the same thing happens to womenzez when they see that "awesome guy" that happens to us Menzez when we see that "HOLY SHIT" girl. Our brains turn off, that maturity gets thrown out of the window, and we are willing to ignore some of the glaring faults due to the utter hotness of the opposite sex. So now, you just have a hot chick. LAWLZ. Maybe wuf is gettin with them honeys you think you want and has realized what most of us do after a while with a person.

The grass is greener on the other side.

But that's the way it is...the fucking human condition. We want something dearly until we get it, then.....well what do we do with it?

What society tells us to. "Hang on to that one, she's a keeper." Yeah, right. Until she's heard all your stories, fucked your brains out (as well as tha milkman when she's bored with you), taken half your money, and left you with half a heart.

Every aspect of your life has been manipulated by society. Yet, it happens so often, you forget to question whether society is right. Hollywood, commercials, books, all have you believing that there is a happy ending to everything. "Eventually, if someone wants it bad enough, he/she will win the WSOP Main event." BULLLLLLSHEEEIIT.

There is no perfect girl out there that is smoking hot, hates douchebags as much as you, is just as intelligent as you, agrees with all your arguments, plays poker, and wants to sleep with you. That girl is a figment of your imagination. A nice figment, but a figment nonetheless.

You see, you may tell yourself that the woman you want doesn't like douchebags...hell, she may tell you. But that's like me telling you I don't like hot sluts. It's simply not true. Sure I disagree with the fact that they may fuck around on me, but theres just something about pulling a chicks hair while slamming her on the hood of her own car that I can't shake.
Same with womenzez. The ones that are "sniffing out douchebags" and not sleeping with them, are simply ploying for a bigger douchebag with a nicer car and a fatter wallet. Not saying there aren't good girls out there. Just saying they all like confident douchebags.

Wuf is simply cutting the facade away. Or, creating it for her...However you want to look at it. He knows what he wants. He knows how to get it. So he gives her what she wants, and BAM. You're sleepin with hot bitchez in no time.

In short, you are arguing because you have a fundamental issue with wuf's perspective. The difference between wuf's perspective and yours? Wuf isn't lying to himself. Wuf isn't holding out for that Main Event ticket. He's grinding away. Which, coincidentally, is the only way you will eventually find the right fit for yourself. In anything, not just poker and girls.

[BankItDrew]

Although spark does not know daven very well, he seems to think he knows daven very well.

[wufwugy]

Confident douchebags can land hot chicks, but they can't land hot chicks that are actually worth having (by my standards). They can land hot superficial, vapid, douchebag chicks.

Any reasonably mature, intelligent woman that's actually worth having beyond a fuck can easily sniff out a douchebag and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole unless they're drunk & looking for a one-night stand.

But this brings us back to the topic of vapid relationships, which you seem perfectly fine with -- so I guess it's moot.

Naw, you misunderstand me a little

First off, my response was designated for the superficial and vapid i.e. pick ups, etc. Once you go beyond first impressions and first experiences, the game changes, usually by addition of other important factors

I'm also not personally fond of vapid relationships, like you say. My previous comments had to do with understanding that many of my desires are contradictory in nature, that I can't eat my cake then eat it again, and this has provoked me to acknowledge some of my innate attraction to things that are often superficial

In many ways, I loathe the superficial. Ever since I was 17, my attraction to women aged 25+ has been higher than 24-. This is because of their level of maturity. In fact, I've discovered that I'm not even remotely attracted to jailbait like most men seem to be, I just find them so fucking stupid and immature it's a turn off.

But none of that negates that other aspects of my attraction are very superficial. I honestly don't like it at all, and this is a pretty big problem for me. Growing up, all I wanted was to find 'the one' and live happily ever after. But as I've experienced reality, I've found that this is a pipedream, and I'm actually quite bitter about it


FWIW, I don't want to discuss my personal life, but one thing I will say is that I once was in love with a woman whom I fully believed to be one of the 'good ones'. She wasn't, and both the pain and revelation that experience gave me has been very, very hard to accept. I guess you could say that I've been hurt so deeply and so wrong about somebody that I go out of my way to not trust women anymore because I'm afraid I'll repeat the same mistake. This is honestly a problem for me because of what I think I really do want, but like I said before, humans' sexual and intimate desires are often dilemmatic and virtually impossible to rectify without some serious compromise. And compromise sucks, especially if you're a man. Part of what makes us feel masculine and attractive to the feminine is that we don't compromise well, but when you realize that you must....

[6spark6]

Although spark does not know daven very well, he seems to think he knows daven very well.

LAWLZ. Who is daven?

I don't actually know any of you. Nor do I think I do. (did you miss this? "that part I cannot comment on since I know neither wuf nor you")

I was jus givin dozer some shit due to the conversation we had earlier in this thread.

As for me saying "wuf is, wuf does", it was really to convey a point without saying I is or I does.

I simply relate to the point wuf made prior and have stuck with that side of the argument.

I think dozer (based on what hes written) thinks more highly of himself because he's "evolved" and doesn't give in to baser instincts in an effort to pursue more real relationships. My point being, most preconcieved notions of what your perfect woman would be and what a "real" relationship is, are wrong.

Through the method of giving in to my baser instincts, I believe I would achieve a greater success rate than someone who waits for the perfect woman, takes a shot, and fucks it up/realizes she's not the woman he percieved her to be....etc.

Because who knows, one hottie I take home from a party might end up actually teaching me something, and piquing my interest.

Certainly a better way than piling all your eggs into aces and summarily quitting the game when they get cracked. That's right, I play small ball with relationships.

BTW
I like how you took the argument to the inside loop. No way for me to win. Brilliant! Beers to ya.

[kiwiMark]

Spark be quiet, men are talking.

[Jack Sawyer]

See that's the thing, you just have to act it

Just like how men are attracted to the appearance of beauty and sexuality yet often don't notice or care about the 'truth' behind that, women are attracted to the appearance of confidence and worth yet they rarely ever stop to wonder why. It's the reason douchebags always have hot chicks. They're worthless and retarded, but they get the chicks simply because they have that one thing that makes women wet; a high sense of self-worth and self-deservedness.

Right on the money.

[Sean Maguire]

I once was in love with a woman whom I fully believed to be one of the 'good ones'. She wasn't, and both the pain and revelation that experience gave me has been very, very hard to accept. I guess you could say that I've been hurt so deeply and so wrong about somebody that I go out of my way to not trust women anymore because I'm afraid I'll repeat the same mistake.

It's not your fault.

[bigred]

It's not your fault.

[kiwiMark]

itt bigred should look at avatars

[d0zer]

I once was in love with a woman whom I fully believed to be one of the 'good ones'. She wasn't, and both the pain and revelation that experience gave me has been very, very hard to accept. I guess you could say that I've been hurt so deeply and so wrong about somebody that I go out of my way to not trust women anymore because I'm afraid I'll repeat the same mistake.

I like the honesty here. This is all too standard obviously. I've experienced it & had a series of vapid relationships that followed. They weren't even really with vapid girls necessarily, but keeping people at a distance inevitably keeps the relationship shallower.

Spark -- I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, yes Hollywood & co has manufactured images of these unreal perfect people for both sexes to naively pursue in vain -- but that doesn't mean you have to use those standards.

And all the talk about sexual lust, our primitive self being the only thing we use to make decisions about who we choose to spend our lives with is just neglecting that we have many different brains with different motives and considerations. The lower level emotional brain is just one in the whole picture, our higher, abstract brain being able to consider the future is another voice. I guess not everyone chooses to listen but I guess that's one reason divorce is so common.

What you're describing is closer to the bar scene where everyone's drunk and attraction has been more or less reduced to our emotional brains.

Don't get me wrong, that's fun and all but it leaves me wanting more. If that makes me some sort of elitist or whatever then so be it

[UG]

I've been down that road, too, Wuf, and it sucks. It probably wasn't the same sort of situation (just judging by what you've written), but it had similar results/feelings as a result. It fucking sucked.

Hopefully my wife doesn't rip my beating heart out of my chest some day, but true love does happen. I could write a huge reply about the when/how/why/etc it happened--but I'm going to save that for another day. For me it happened and I didn't even realize it was happening until......it just was. Crazy shit for sure, but I'm a pretty happy man because of it.

[6spark6]

I like the honesty here. This is all too standard obviously. I've experienced it & had a series of vapid relationships that followed. They weren't even really with vapid girls necessarily, but keeping people at a distance inevitably keeps the relationship shallower.

Spark -- I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, yes Hollywood & co has manufactured images of these unreal perfect people for both sexes to naively pursue in vain -- but that doesn't mean you have to use those standards.

And all the talk about sexual lust, our primitive self being the only thing we use to make decisions about who we choose to spend our lives with is just neglecting that we have many different brains with different motives and considerations. The lower level emotional brain is just one in the whole picture, our higher, abstract brain being able to consider the future is another voice. I guess not everyone chooses to listen but I guess that's one reason divorce is so common.

What you're describing is closer to the bar scene where everyone's drunk and attraction has been more or less reduced to our emotional brains.

Don't get me wrong, that's fun and all but it leaves me wanting more. If that makes me some sort of elitist or whatever then so be it

Perhaps I am not explaining this as well as I thought. I'm not saying you are an elitist. I'm saying no one is. We just play that role because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Yeah, sure were moral, intelligent, reasonable people...most of the time. But if you and I were on a life raft with 30 days worth of food (for two people), and society was drowning, I guarrantee you would let them all die. It's you or them. You could rationalize it as, "well we would all die in 3 days anyway, this way at least someone lives." The reality though? Preservation of self. Nothing more.

Evolutionarily speaking, we will always be behind our time. This is only worsened by our recent technological advances (from pennicillin and modern medicines on). You and I, we're still of the same genes as cowboys and indians. But our society...well that's a different matter entirely. In fact, I would argue that as our society evolves, we are doing the opposite. More and more our society is compensating for our lack of intellectual and physical evolution. Don't want to add, oh, that's ok, here's a calculator. Genetic disease? Oh here, take these pills, and proliferate life. What? Can't walk? Here's a car for you. You walked into the middle of the street and got hit by a car? Don't worry, we'll fix you right up and have you making babies in no time. We can't evolve if we keep muddling up our gene pool with sub-prime dna. It won't happen.

This brings me to our emotional evolution or lack thereof. Is there any sense to throwing an xbox controller across the room? Will it change the fact that you just got stabbed for the 43rd time in cod4? No. Yet...youtube is full of videos of people losing thier minds over it, and summarily throwing the controller. Here's an example that hits closer to home. I'm not trying to poke fun, I am only trying to prove a point. With that in mind...

"well now that some bonk who doesn't know how to quote properly has chimed in to suck wuf's dick... " -d0zer.

Now, was this intelligent and rational? Is this the higher brain you were using? Nope. This was strictly emotional. Which is fine...but there were a thousand other things you could have said that would smite my posts points into the ground. However, you chose this. Why?

I'll come back to that. In regard to your theory of divorces occurring because of a lack of higher brain power, I would urge the opposite. They occurred BECAUSE of the higher brain. Follow me here. Two people meet..."fall in love"...6 months later get married...and 3 years later get a divorce. I believe the order of operations here went something like this. Primal urges, primal urges, primal urges+societal pressure, higher brain...respectively of course. The divorce was because the honeymoon phase was over. There was no longer a primal emotion overload, and eventually the higher brain kicked in. "wait, I don't really want to spend the rest of my life with this person, he/she (insert reason for divorce here)".

Emotion dominates logic EVERY time. This is why you responded with an emotional response (though I'm sure you rationalized that you were winning the audience), and then an intellectual response. Or why you get a bad beat, go all in, and then afterward realize, man I should have just waited for a better spot.

Because in reality, we're beasts, with a smidgen of intelligence thrown in.

As for hollywood and co. creating false standards, I agree. However, they are only accentuating the things we ALREADY like. It doesn't change the fact that we like them. Yet, they manipulate your opinion about WHY you like them. It's to make you feel better, smarter, more "civilized". What's the truth though?

Attraction is just another emotion, and is rooted in our biology. You can reason it to yourself however you like. You still like big titties.

[d0zer]

Two people meet..."fall in love"...6 months later get married...and 3 years later get a divorce. I believe the order of operations here went something like this. Primal urges, primal urges, primal urges+societal pressure, higher brain...respectively of course. The divorce was because the honeymoon phase was over. There was no longer a primal emotion overload, and eventually the higher brain kicked in. "wait, I don't really want to spend the rest of my life with this person, he/she (insert reason for divorce here)".

Right, and I'm saying that with some higher brain foresight, the whole mess can be avoided in the first place. If you're aware of the biochemistry behind attraction, and how the honeymoon phase does pass, then your rational brain can recognize a purely emotional attraction for what it is, and not get married to some crazy bitch in the first place. Proposing marriage is something that can be contemplated, using the higher brain. The primitive brain is there also, clouding judgment, but it doesn't have to necessarily override the higher brain.

Because in reality, we're beasts, with a smidgen of intelligence thrown in.

There's truth there, but we're more complicated than that. It's not like we're always 90% emotion and 10% reason. At any given instant we're operating with different proportions of each. When we're drunk in a nightclub and some moderately attractive girl is flirting with us, we're far more on the emotion side than when we have a clear head and there aren't immediate, overt emotional triggers.

That's why I believe that selecting a long-term mate in humans is more complicated than how dogs choose fuck partners. Yes we are animals with all those shared mammalian instincts, but we're also more than that.

In desperate situations we revert to more primitive creatures out of necessity, which is why there's more violence in 3rd world countries etc, and mate selection devolves accordingly, but when we have the luxury of time and opportunities, we have the luxury of indulging our higher brains.

You continue to say we're just fucking animals and that's simply ignoring the fact that we're more complicated than other mammals. I've experienced otherwise because I've had relationships with girls equally as hot, but I worked harder on one relationship than I did the other because I saw more long-term potential in one than the other. Sure enough, the relationship I didn't work on fizzled out after the honeymoon phase and we broke up.

It may have been my primitive lust for big tittehs and acceptable hip to waist ratio that got me with those girls in the first place, but it was my higher brain that kept one relationship alive and let the other fizzle out. That's the piece of the puzzle you keep ignoring -- maybe because you haven't experienced it.

[Lukie]

confidence is so important because it almost allows women to screen for other attributes they desire in reverse. i.e. it's much easier to lie about money or other positive qualities than it is to carry yourself in a way that suggests that in the first place.

imagine seeing a woman walk down the street confident, head held high, shoulders back and relaxed, etc., you'd probably think she has a lot going for her. switched around, that urge is much, much stronger for a woman looking at a comparable man. it's really not all that complicated.

also i'll point out that 'douchebag' is a very relative term and thrown around way too loosely. what might be a douchebag to an unsuccessful man griping about women on the internet might be a person described much differently by an attractive female.

[BennyLaRue]

also i'll point out that 'douchebag' is a very relative term and thrown around way too loosely. what might be a douchebag to an unsuccessful man griping about women on the internet might be a person described much differently by an attractive female.

No, I think we can all agree that Guy Fieri is a douchebag.