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2 Pears vs nit, line check.

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  1. #1

    Default 2 Pears vs nit, line check.

    Okay so villain is 17/11/1.5(3b) over 160 hands, sb is also 17/11 and they're both folding their blinds like 85-90% therefore I'm opening any 2 from the button on this table. I've seen villain donk half pot with T8 on 975tt in a 3 way pot and bet a blank turn.

    My image is pretty aggro/active/table bully etc etc.

    I think on the flop his donking range is overpairs, draws sets and 44 A2s A3s A4s A5s. Given this I think folding the flop is probably optimal, since we aren't going to have good equity here, every turn just about sucks and we'll be facing a bet very often which we just can't call. So vs this guy I like a flop fold.

    Then on the turn I feel like he has overpairs, draws, sets etc still so I raise for value.

    When he just flats the turn and we get a blank river I can't resist shoving for value vs like TT JJ, he has way more combos of these than sets or A4s which he prolly jams on the turn a good amount. and may even have QQ-AA. I mean yeah being a nit he can fold JJ TT etc sometimes but if he has some QQ-AA we're easily going to be good vs his calling range.

    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 50.000% 50.00% 00.00% 12 0.00 { 9c5s }
    Hand 1: 50.000% 50.00% 00.00% 12 0.00 { JJ-99, 55, 33-22, A4s }

    I mean if we give him all nut hands which he simply will be jamming the tuirn with a large amount then it's BE assuming he has no QQ+ and can't ever fold JJ TT. I think this shows river is fine.

    Thoughts please? Downswinging atm so checking up on shit that may be std.

    No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    UTG ($100)
    MP ($113.50)
    CO ($115.70)
    Hero (Button) ($100)
    SB ($99)
    BB ($104.15)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 5
    3 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

    Flop: ($6.50) 2, 5, 3 (2 players)
    BB bets $4, Hero calls $4

    Turn: ($14.50) 9 (2 players)
    BB bets $9, Hero raises $29, BB calls $20

    River: ($72.50) 8 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $64 (All-In)
  2. #2
    my instinct is to raise/fold the flop, and shut down if called. raise>>fold>call
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
    Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
  3. #3
    considering your image it's closer between raising/folding. since you've got a club i'd still raise tho
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
    Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
  4. #4
    pocketfours's Avatar
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    looks fine, def call flop.
  5. #5
    don`t raise flop lol - do with overs or gutter
    as played fine - sometimes he`ll show you better, but def +EV jam on the river
  6. #6
    Ravageur's Avatar
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    This seems fine, the flop is a tough spot, a lot of turns do suck for us but folding seem weak. Raising flop small, like 2.5x his betsize seems ok and he'll call sometimes with his Ax stuff that we're ahead of and fold better sometimes and lets us chk through some turns.....but meh calling is prob better.

    Anyway, turn/river are standard.
    Family Cruise IMO
  7. #7
    Mr. Diamond's Avatar
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    I like folding flop - you are making money preflop w/ this hand and now you almost can't improve on the turn (you will be folding almost every turn), and you are calling vs very good range - easy fold imo

    - I like turn and river as played
  8. #8
    Yeah I think flop is a pretty clear fold, his frequency for donking Ax is probably fairly low and even if he is we'll be facing a turn bet on a shit turn enough that calling will be a mistake. Don't think "it seems weak" is a reason to call the flop vs a nitty-ish range when we don't get to showdown enough here to realise any equity we do have.
    Last edited by Carroters; 10-10-2010 at 12:57 PM.
  9. #9
    pocketfours's Avatar
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    Folding the flop does not compute.
  10. #10
    I need a reason other than your not gate producing a 0
  11. #11
    pocketfours's Avatar
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    I think we have easily enough equity vs his range and I don't agree with your assessment that we won't be able to realize it in position vs this weak player. If he leads closer to pot I might consider folding.
  12. #12
    Ravageur's Avatar
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    yeah i agree with p4s. We are ahead often enough and we're in position. It's too bad we don't have many postflop reads - does he c/raise strong? Has he lead strong before?

    Question for those who like a flop fold : Would you call here with a hand like AcKx? I think if anything I'd rather have this disguised trash because he's not going to continue betting on A/4 turns without the goods anyway so we'll take down those turns as well as turns that improve us or blanks that let us keep stationing down.
    Last edited by Ravageur; 10-10-2010 at 11:26 PM.
    Family Cruise IMO
  13. #13
    Mr. Diamond's Avatar
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    I have no problem with calling if I have some idea about his tendencies, but this villain seems like classic 436-tabling nit - I think he is doing this for value and I don't think we have enough equity
  14. #14
    couldnt be more standard
    I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sauce123 View Post
    couldnt be more standard
    Yep. Pretty sure I'm always playing this hand the same way as OP. Mixing in some turn calls sometimes, but can't imagine ever folding flop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

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