River decision against a fish

[BorisTheSpider]

Hero (CO) ($26.97)
Button ($25)
SB ($11.33)
BB ($25.54)
UTG ($25)
MP ($43.83)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3d, Ad
2 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) 3h, Qc, 3c (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB calls $1

Turn: ($4.10) 7h (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.74, BB calls $2.74

River: ($9.58) Jh (2 players)
BB checks.......


BB is a huge fish, limping all sorts of crap and calling down with any piece. Without the flush card on the river, I'd always bet on the end, expecting to be called by Queen-rag or a 7. When the flush card does come though, do you bet-fold this river for value, or check behind?

[d0zer]

I'd rather b/c than check behind. maybe b/f'ing is better than b/c, but if he's at all spewy he could be bluffing a missed FD if you bet like $6.

[supa]

I'm not the guy that should be criticizing bet sizing but I'd like to hear from others about yours.

imo:

pre- 4x is way to big from the CO with this hand
flop- much closer to pot
turn- pot
river- ship

[BorisTheSpider]

Supa, thanks for your reply. Yes, perhaps I should have been using my vagina less on the flop - I reckoned he'd call Q-rag easier to a smaller bet or might chase with any 2 cards to a small bet and improve on the turn so I could get more of his money in, but with this kind of player if he's calling he's calling a bigger bet too. The small flop bet also lets him chase the backdoor flush, which he may not to a 2/3 or pot sized bet.

On turn I agree that potting it would have been better also.

I definitely don't favour shipping this river though, QhXh or a ridiculous other 2 hearts is about all that's calling that don't you think? Maybe there's value there from JQ but that's all I can see calling that we beat.

As for preflop bet sizing, I'm thinking about this. I bet 4x with any hand I'd open from any position currently. I am open to learning more here, but trading off the higher PF fold equity from a slightly bigger bet with marginal hands from the cutoff and button vs a slightly smaller bet that gets called a little more often and leaves me playing more marginal hands post flop, albeit with position and in smaller pots, doesn't leave me entirely convinced either way.

I know I've read advice from players much better than I to do both: size bets according to position/range strength, and just have a one-size-fits-all preflop opening size.

[supa]

BB is a huge fish, limping all sorts of crap and calling down with any piece.

You got trips broskee. Not getting it in vs this guy is a huge mistake.

*edit* Post your hands in the beginners circle now that you've moved down. You'll get more conversation going there and this forum is for 50nl and up.

[lukem1990uk]

I'm not the guy that should be criticizing bet sizing but I'd like to hear from others about yours.

imo:

pre- 4x is way to big from the CO with this hand
flop- much closer to pot
turn- pot
river- ship

River ship wtf ? lol

You HAVE to value bet here for me Bet/call against this kind of player hardly ever showing up with a flush here sometimes even a filthy little 3 like 43s and hes calling a bet with a Q everytime....

[supa]

River ship wtf ? lol

You HAVE to value bet here for me Bet/call against this kind of player hardly ever showing up with a flush here sometimes even a filthy little 3 like 43s and hes calling a bet with a Q everytime....

I have no idea what you just said. You don't want all the fishes chips?

[Vinland]

lukem: I think supa is assuming we are ahead here 90+% of the time and is shoving for value and expecting to get called often enough....

Boris:
Never checking the river here if he's a fish. In fact I'm not too worried about runner, runner flushes too often.

You have a very strong hand, never mind that he's terrible so bet value for it.
Flop: $1.50
Turn: $4
River: $10 and once I bet that, I'm obv not folding either

I dont mind a river shove but not sure if the EV of a shove is going to be higher than ev of a solid vb.

[lukem1990uk]

I dont mind a river shove but not sure if the EV of a shove is going to be higher than ev of a solid vb.

^^^This is the point i was trying to make lol ^^^

Sorry supa didnt account for your pot sized bets on flop and turn and thought you was shoving $19 -$20 into a $9.50 riv my apologies

Still thinking a solid value bet line is +ev against the shoving line.

[supa]

He's not calling any size bet with a busted fd and never folding a Q. Obv there's more to his range that would fold to a shove but call a vbet. I really don't use the overbet shove play enough imo but think this is a prime situation to do it. It may be too huge an overbet even if we potted every street so iunno. We could have a pot of $14 with $18 effective left behind. Doesn't seem unreasonable.