Congratulations to Kiwimark for winning Werewolves and Vampires II

[wufwugy]

He sure deserves it...

Actually Gizmo won the coinflip so yay tah wolves win! GJ holmes

teh dead thread for you to read if you want, but officially over wwdeadthread209 - QuickTopic free message board hosting

[bikes]

biggest fucking throw ever.

[wufwugy]

What do you mean by "throw?" Weirdly, I've never seen that term in this context before

Also can you explain how you figured out Gizmo was a wolf on day two or whatever you said

[bikes]

What do you mean by "throw?" Weirdly, I've never seen that term in this context before

Also can you explain how you figured out Gizmo was a wolf on day two or whatever you said

throwing is taking a sure win and then throwing it away. as in like 2-3 wolves dead day 2 and then losing.

i figured out gizmo was the wolf as soon as he snap jumped on me after stacks combined with his previous posts.

i knew stacks was a wolf when he hesitated on ong because he doesn't like ong's posts just as much as i did.


ong's revenge lynch was the first major throw in a series of many large throws.

[bigred]

So I was right on the whole gizmo read, hooray

[OngBonga]

Oh no I'm not gonna sleep tonight. Lynching bikes is the biggest mistake of my life, I'll remember this day on my deathbed.

Well played gizmo.

[OngBonga]

Obviously the first large throw was the refusal to rescind an outed seer and give him a flip, but yeah I acknowledge I ran two very bad lynch wagons that cost us dear. Village definitely deserved to lose this one.

[bigred]

You know what, fuck wuf and fuck gizmo. I won this shit. I can't help that a dbag new zealander got lost somewhere on his tiny island and couldn't sign in. I think the coin flip is bullshit. I proved, LITERALLY PROVED, I was a villager and any player who signed in would have snap lynched gizmo and we would have one. I think the decision for a coinflip is downright theft.

Plus, I question the integrity of the coinflip.

[bigred]

A wufwugy "coin flip" that is

[bikes]

A wufwugy "coin flip" that is

[wufwugy]

I think the game was just really weird. I purposely tried to make it slightly imbalanced against the village, but I think it turned out to be really imba against the village.

There were many times that the number of active villagers was equal to the number of active baddies, so the village had an impossible time of getting smart wagons through. However, this also allowed the baddies to get really sloppy, and it was the village's fault for missing a lot of that slop. For example, JKDS making Shotty a 3-way wagon should have gotten him killed 100% of the time on the next day, but that just kinda slipped by. Stax ended up doing similar sloppy stuff and got shot because of it, but Gizmo never got caught in his sloppy wagon hopping. And I think they all did it merely because they could. There were not enough active villagers to scrutinize everything deeply enough or get any vote rallying or large bandwagons going

I do think that individually, the village played pretty well. Boog, for example, did much more than he usually does, but I think the structure of having so many baddies and so few active villagers just kinda fucked the village. So I guess I'm sorry for that

[wufwugy]

You know what, fuck wuf and fuck gizmo. I won this shit. I can't help that a dbag new zealander got lost somewhere on his tiny island and couldn't sign in. I think the coin flip is bullshit. I proved, LITERALLY PROVED, I was a villager and any player who signed in would have snap lynched gizmo and we would have one. I think the decision for a coinflip is downright theft.

Plus, I question the integrity of the coinflip.

I was debating "forcing" Gizmo to nom Kiwi in order for the final day to be Gizmo Bigred Gator or Gizmo Bigred JKDS and not have to boil down to a flip, but consensus in the dead thread was to just let it ride out on its own

The ending was really a let down, but whatever.

If you guys wanna play again, I'll mod again. Modding is actually less time consuming than playing. It would be a simpler and more efficient two team game

[Pascal]

I enjoyed it a lot, thanks wug.

[bikes]

thx for modding wuf

[JKDS]

Game was great wuf. I had fun at least ^__^

People genuinely surprised me in the dead threat too. So many soul reads, and the night kill analysis is top notch. Chelle died, and everyone in that thread was like "lol, obv crazyv" even with all my "HEY GUYS, LEAVE CRAZY V ALONE PLZ, lynch gizmo!" posts. People knew my only option was to kill boog, they knew most of the defenses, so much win.

Makes up for fail in game i think :3

[wufwugy]

Thanks for the dead thread link btw jkds. If anybody has a better place than quicktopic, please pipe up

It's funny that we got a whole bunch of "lifetime ww bans" this game: justinsks, kiwi, joker...

[NightGizmo]

Thanks for modding, wuf. Sucks that the game ended up hinging on a player that decided not to show up, though. gg all.

[NightGizmo]

I proved, LITERALLY PROVED, I was a villager and any player who signed in would have snap lynched gizmo and we would have one.

Well, you were only a proven villager because I decided to gamble a bit and vote first against kiwi. How close were you to voting against him? Was there any chance at all, or were you pretty much 100% convinced that I was the wolf?

[Stacks]

Dead thread was awesome.

Just letting everyone know if I am a wolf next game, I will be very inactive. Practically no posting. It's certainly the optimal strategy, and much easier than trying to be active.

Unless everyone is on board with lynching inactives early without question. Definitely don't want them around to make the end game come down to flips and shit.

[Stacks]

Well, you were only a proven villager because I decided to gamble a bit and vote first against kiwi. How close were you to voting against him? Was there any chance at all, or were you pretty much 100% convinced that I was the wolf?

I think a villager practically never goes first on the last day, unless they are absolutely sure who the wolf is. Saying you aren't sure, but going with it, tends to be something I don't think a villager would do. Especially without hoping Kiwi shows up in time.

I kinda learned this when I lost to Gator at the end game in a similar situation. Almost everyone knew he was the wolf, and he voted for the other player first. Who then knew I wasn't the wolf since I didn't jump on the lynch. But I ended up leveling myself somehow, even though before the final day I was convinced I would be voting to lynch Gator if it came down to it.

[wufwugy]

hey look i found the village trying to lynch jkds

[JKDS]

I laughed out loud at everyone saying i was a day1 policy lynch now. I also grew extremely terrified.

[JKDS]

Imagine what its gonna be like if i ever got a real special role?

Easiest mislynch ever.

"Im seer"

"LOL, YA RIGHT, LYNCH"

""

[wufwugy]

i still cant believe you got away with the name the wufinator. i mean wtf, does everybody here think im that self-absorbed? dont answer that

[JKDS]

Youve called yourself something like that before, and others have called you that too i think. It fit enough. I figured it was more likely theyd believe that name, than any other.

Also, the more bizarre the power, the more likely it is to be believed imo! Spend so much time thinking about role implications and logic and shit, that all of a sudden my bad posts vanish o.o

UNTIL BOOG AND TLR FEEL LIKE FUCKING IT UP.

[Vinland]

I thought "the Wufinator" was totally something you'd make up....
Special role, hard to kill.....yeah that sounds like something you'd do.

I just questioned JK's delivery of telling us....more than the actual role itself.

[bigred]

Well, you were only a proven villager because I decided to gamble a bit and vote first against kiwi. How close were you to voting against him? Was there any chance at all, or were you pretty much 100% convinced that I was the wolf?

I wasn't. I was ready to lynch kiwi but the combo of jkds' attack mid game, gator's late game posts, and your last day quick vote made me pretty confident you were the last wolf.

No one has really addressed what a crime a last day flip is. The villag had is this game. Literally had it. And I think the decision for a flip instead of the mod ending it for the village win was a poor decision. Otherwise, thanks for modding wuf.

[bigred]

I mean seriously. Here's how the last day modding should have gone down with kiwis inactivity.

If kiwi was a wolf, easy vote for gizmo and a win for the wolves.

If kiwi was a villager, not even Boog could get this lynch wrong. Easy win for village. It's insulting it went to a flip.

I'm not drunk! Ok I am. But seriously. Wufwugy, you can't possibly think the end game merited a coin flip based on the way it played out.

[BennyLaRue]

He wins everything.

[bigred]

Sigh. Read the dead thread quick topic forum which was interesting. Pretty funny how many people thought I was the obv wolf.

I'm just disheartened at the fact that everyone thought it should be a coin flip or go to the wolves. They played great up until the last day buy gizmo got over excited and made s huge huge mistake.

[bigred]

I wasn't. I was ready to lynch kiwi but the combo of jkds' attack mid game, gator's late game posts, and your last day quick vote made me pretty confident you were the last wolf.

No one has really addressed what a crime a last day flip is. The villag had is this game. Literally had it. And I think the decision for a flip instead of the mod ending it for the village win was a poor decision. Otherwise, thanks for modding wuf.

Also, I want to emphasize for once...ONCE!!!...I read through the entire game multiple times to finally conclude that gizmo was the wolf. That's like work and I don't do work.

[wufwugy]

I mean seriously. Here's how the last day modding should have gone down with kiwis inactivity.

If kiwi was a wolf, easy vote for gizmo and a win for the wolves.

If kiwi was a villager, not even Boog could get this lynch wrong. Easy win for village. It's insulting it went to a flip.

I'm not drunk! Ok I am. But seriously. Wufwugy, you can't possibly think the end game merited a coin flip based on the way it played out.

I didn't think it did, but didn't really know what else to do. Everything went really the wrong way at every point. I was considering doing lots of different stuff, but JKDS winning the flip put a damper on much of it. I asked the dead thread and the majority responses were to just let a flip happen, so I went with that

Worst ending ever, but the only thing I think I could have done is either 1) PM kiwi and tell him to bold somebody (which would be a flip in and of itself), or 2) not let Gizmo choose who to nom on the last day so I could modkill Kiwi. I was strongly considering the latter, but that was under the assumption that the JKDS lynch would go through, so we would have a standard two villagers vs one wolf on the final day. Even after JKDS survived, I thought that Gizmo was going to choose to nom Kiwi anyways

Just about everything went wrong in every way in this game...

Ton of inactives
3 specials lynched, 1 modkilled
3 baddies dead in 2 days
amount of bolds from baddies equaling or greater than from villagers
people getting lynched with a small percentage of the living players voting for them
flips

Shit was just petarded

[wufwugy]

I'm sorry it's disheartening. Honestly, I figured we'd all just consider it the draw it was. Maybe I should declare it a draw. SHOULD I? If you think about it, it technically was a draw

How about somebody PM kiwi and tell him to get in here so we can all berate him

[wufwugy]

He wins everything.

You could have prevented this from happening

But you chose not to

You were too busy stuffing berries into your jacket

[NightGizmo]

No one has really addressed what a crime a last day flip is. The villag had is this game. Literally had it. And I think the decision for a flip instead of the mod ending it for the village win was a poor decision. Otherwise, thanks for modding wuf.

FWIW, there is no way I would have gone for a quick vote if it wasn't for the fact that kiwi had been so absent. If there were two active villagers, it would have been so much easier to let the discussions play out and hope one of you guys voted wrong. So flipping isn't that outrageous -- kiwi also hurt my chances of winning.

[bigred]

No draw. I clearly win. Forget anything I said about a village win. Just give me the win.

[BennyLaRue]

Just about everything went wrong in every way in this game...

I haven't been paying attention, but you're prob just being overly sensitavy.

[NightGizmo]

Even after JKDS survived, I thought that Gizmo was going to choose to nom Kiwi anyways

I briefly thought about it, but I figured that letting JKDS live makes it a flip between the vamps and wolves. The remaining villager has no stake in the game anymore, so either he doesn't vote (true coinflip) or he makes his decision on a whim. Killing JKDS was a little better because I could at least try to convince bigred that kiwi was a wolf, even if it was a longshot.

Plus I couldn't let JKDS win with his ridiculous fake outing. Seriously, how did he survive so long?!!

[NightGizmo]

I'm sorry it's disheartening. Honestly, I figured we'd all just consider it the draw it was. Maybe I should declare it a draw. SHOULD I? If you think about it, it technically was a draw

How about somebody PM kiwi and tell him to get in here so we can all berate him

Yeah, it's not a very satisfying win. But considering that one of the wolves just didn't show up -- I guess I'll take it.

[wufwugy]

I briefly thought about it, but I figured that letting JKDS live makes it a flip between the vamps and wolves. The remaining villager has no stake in the game anymore, so either he doesn't vote (true coinflip) or he makes his decision on a whim. Killing JKDS was a little better because I could at least try to convince bigred that kiwi was a wolf, even if it was a longshot.

Plus I couldn't let JKDS win with his ridiculous fake outing. Seriously, how did he survive so long?!!

Yeah I created my thoughts on why you should nom Kiwi so you could have a Bigred and Gator final day before it became apparent JKDS was going to get a flip

[TLR]

NG - Well played, I was able to read most of the baddies (JKDS, Stax, Crazz) but you were never on my radar

Wuf- great modding, thanks

I think the standard for future WW is to have modkills for inactivity and have a dead player fill in instead of the missing player, assuming the role of that player

[Stacks]

I'm not drunk! Ok I am. But seriously. Wufwugy, you can't possibly think the end game merited a coin flip based on the way it played out.

Gizmo kinda got screwed when you voted Gator after saying you are 95% sure JKDS is the vampire, forcing a flip between those two, that JKDS won. Which gave JKDS the chance to kill Gizmo, and forced Gizmo into either a nom you/kiwi and let the village decide whether vampires or wolves win, or nom JKDS and be in a very likely flip situation with an inactive kiwi and you left.

[Stacks]

NG - Well played, I was able to read most of the baddies (JKDS, Stax, Crazz) but you were never on my radar

JKDS sure put forth one hell of an argument against Gizmo. He pretty much picked up on everything possible that linked him to being a wolf. And had JKDS not fake outted, I think his argument might have had the credibility to get Gizmo lynched (or should have).

@JKDS - Why did you bold shotty making it a 3way tie? Something you basically never do as a villager there. You didn't have much heat at the time, and I felt like that is what changed everyone's perspective of you, probably forcing you to fake out. Did you think shotty was very likely the necro/vig and just couldn't pass up the opportunity to kill her off? Plus it would put you in the fun fake out spot?

@Gizmo - The noobie list that was missing justin's name near the beginning of the game. Was that your attempt to signal me? Or did you legit just forget his name (or not want to put it for other reasons)? I felt like that was your attempt to figure out the turncoat, and thought that it was damn clever if it was. Since I kinda expected that I (the turncoat) would likely be the one that had to put forth effort in letting you know who I was.

[JKDS]

The tie was about 50% fucking around, and 50% inducing misclicks.

I put the entire village in a situation where anyone could come forward and alter the tie. This is a lot of pressure. If you look, no one came forward to change it except 1) you, tied; 2) shotty, tied; and 3) Ong, who is ong and doesnt afraid of anything.

However, if someone DID come forward, then the village gets a ton of info. I know that its unlikely a vamp would do it, because no vamp was part of the tie. So that leaves wolves. Essentially, im putting the wolf team into a very weird situation if one of the 3 is a wolf (likely), and still weird if one of the three isnt. Is it wolfy to alter the tie? Wolfy to do nothing? What happens when stacks dies anyway and you're seen derailing?

But...my post looks like an attempt to alter the fate as well...and i didnt think that far ahead. I mean i wasnt a wolf, so obv no one would think i was after that.... :3

[JKDS]

Also, ill admit that even though it should have been painfully obvious in hindsight...i didnt have any guesses as to who the necro was.

But i mean, who uses the revive immediately to bring back the first dead villager...who happens to be ong? Obv shotty. So obv.

Also also

I was so pissed that no one was lynching gizmo. I thought i had him dead to rights, and even signaled the mod for shits and giggles. I think he survived more because he has this weird "man, i never know what gizmo is, he could be any role...even a villager!" type meta than because i was seen as a baddie.

[BooG690]

Gay. I actually knew who a couple of baddies were this game and we lost. I'll never know baddies' identities ever again.

[Shotglass]

Great modding wuf
also:

I laughed out loud at everyone saying i was a day1 policy lynch now. I also grew extremely terrified.

be scared, be very scared -------->>>>> day 1

[spidyberge]

Reading this game of yours.Seems quite interesting with wolves,vampires,and so called special powered people.Looking forward to maybe playing in the next one.Congrats kiwi.

[jyms]

Haven't checked out hte dead thread since it was quiet when I was taken out early. I should probably read it.

Thanks Wuf, good job. The only thing I think that is a problem in a lot of these games is the length of time given each day. I'd like to see a little more pressure put on people to post by making the days a little shorter. It's cool if there is dialogue, but when it's the same three or four people then things get stale sometimes,

[GatorJH]

don't beat yourself up too bad wuf. Also Kiwi did play a great game and actually deserved the win. If the last day had come down to myself, Kiwi and bigred I was 80% voting bigred that day which would have been a clear win for kiwi.

TBH, I was just surprised to still be alive at the end of the game and finally I laughed when I saw gizmo lynch kiwi that early as it reminded me of winning as a wolf with that same move. Unfortunately it backfired against him.

[OngBonga]

Just letting everyone know if I am a wolf next game, I will be very inactive.

Yawn.

I'd sooner lose as active wolf than win as inactive wolf.

[NightGizmo]

@Gizmo - The noobie list that was missing justin's name near the beginning of the game. Was that your attempt to signal me? Or did you legit just forget his name (or not want to put it for other reasons)? I felt like that was your attempt to figure out the turncoat, and thought that it was damn clever if it was. Since I kinda expected that I (the turncoat) would likely be the one that had to put forth effort in letting you know who I was.

When I put together the list, I decided to leave off Justin because I honestly wasn't sure if he had played before or not (I've only been playing WW since about March, and he has a join date around 2009 or something). The list I put together was only consisted of players that said "I'm new" in the signup thread or have only been on the forum since I started playing the WW games.

I wish I could say that it was my plan from the beginning to signal you with that list, but unfortunately it wasn't. Good job taking advantage of that, however. We picked up on your response during our night-1 re-read and felt pretty confident that we identified our turncoat, and it wasn't very obvious that you signaled us.

[NightGizmo]

BTW -- Justin should definitely be permabanned from WW. On top of not showing up for the game, he also refused to use skype as a wolf. I sent out a PM at the beginning of the game to JV and Justin saying, "Here's my skype name, let's get together." A couple of days after he was lynched he responded to my PM with something like, "No, I'm only using PMs." That kid is beyond stupid.

[OngBonga]

quicktopic (site of deadthread) is the way forward if a wolf cannot or will not use skype.

[crazzvette]

Isn't a win still a win ? Active or not , grrrrrrrrrr , lol .
congrats to kiwi and his fellow wolves .

[OngBonga]

lol way to read the thread title but not the OP.

[GatorJH]

Isn't a win still a win ? Active or not , grrrrrrrrrr , lol .
congrats to kiwi and his fellow wolves .

still clueless.

Hey crazy, kiwi was an absent villager who let the wolves win a flip for the win by not voting.

[bigred]

In all seriousness, thanks for modding wuf. You did a great job given the shitty participation by a few players.

I'd also be willing to mod if you'd like to play the next one.

[jackvance]

Blah blah wolf team won! GJ gizmo my man

[wufwugy]

Haven't checked out hte dead thread since it was quiet when I was taken out early. I should probably read it.

Thanks Wuf, good job. The only thing I think that is a problem in a lot of these games is the length of time given each day. I'd like to see a little more pressure put on people to post by making the days a little shorter. It's cool if there is dialogue, but when it's the same three or four people then things get stale sometimes,

I'm glad you played and think you would be a stellar addition to the crew. I'd like to see Vinland play more too, and he's kinda the opposite of you in that he doesn't post much while you post a lot. What the game needs is participating regs

And I agree on the day timing thing. I did several different things for different reasons, but it does need to be tighter.

I'd say approximate 48 hour days, 24 hour nights, and not extending days because of the weekends. I would like to figure out a way to shorten the nights though.

[surviva316]

That kid is beyond stupid.

Lol.

[bigred]

Well, you were only a proven villager because I decided to gamble a bit and vote first against kiwi. How close were you to voting against him? Was there any chance at all, or were you pretty much 100% convinced that I was the wolf?

Didn't see this. I read through thread with a huge kiwi bias and was pretty much 99% lynching kiwi and then you bolded him. I thought, hold the phone...what villager does that? So I reread thread with a you bias and everything came up millhouse (or lynch you). I think what ultimately clinched it was a few back and forths between you and jkds and a few posts by gator from the day he was lynched.

[kiwiMark]

i nominate kiwimark for ww lifeban

Upheld.

Jesus, sorry guys. I was having a hard time getting on the net much even when I was still active in this game (hence complaints I wasn't contributing enough I guess), and as was maybe noticed wasn't really on the net/FTR at all recently. Half forgot about this game and half thought I'd just get modkilled, but in any event I shan't be playing again and genuinely sorry for fucking that last game up.

[OngBonga]

No-one cares anymore Mark. If you were, idunno, crazz, then we'd still be annoyed.