[10NL] QQ...3 way, 5bet pot w/ possible fish and TAG reg

[Cobra_1878]

MP is unknown, bought in for $4 to explain his stack size, it's not because he doesn't auto top-up. 30/20 over 10 hands.

SB is 16/14/3 (3bet) over 94 hands, not all in this session. Not seen him to anything crazy.

Not sure if my image is worth mentioning but I had started pretty LAGG, was running at 39/33 w/ a 15% 3bet over 54 hands, so I think this may mean my hand strength is kind of disguised when I just flat SB's 3bet.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): $13.00
MP: $4.51
CO: $9.60
BTN: $7.40
SB: $9.85
BB: $10.15

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to $0.35, MP calls $0.35, fold, fold, SB raises to $1.60, fold, Hero calls $1.25, MP raises to $2.90, SB raises to $9.85 and is all-in, Hero ???

[Savy]

I think I'd be folding here.

Out of interest what was going through your head when you flat the 3bet?

[Cobra_1878]

I think I'd be folding here.

Out of interest what was going through your head when you flat the 3bet?

That I get to play a pot IP if MP decides to fold or that I get to see what SB wants to do if MP decides to shove.

I also don't think he continues with much worse than me if I decide to 4bet.

[eugmac]

Definitely fold as played. SB looks to be a nit 3-betting OOP vs an UTG raise. 4betting seems definitely bad, and his range is largely AK and QQ+ by default - I don't think this type is squeezing light here, but somebody can refute that if I'm wrong.

Assuming I'm right about his tighter than a fish's asshole 3bet range, if you call, what is your post-flop plan? Do you know his cbetting tendencies in 3bet pots? Can you profitably call down many streets on A high flops? When you have an overpair?

Reverse implied odds are terrible for us when flops come T73 or whatever, and A and K high flops are bad news.

No odds to set mine. So fold to the 3bet?

[eugmac]

MP is probably a fish based on stack size and his cold calling, which makes this even more of a fold. SB isn't squeezing light in hopes of having high FE.

[Savy]

I was tempted to say fold to a 3bet, but I really don't think we have the sample to be making such huge adjustments. I'm assuming by your plan Cobra you folded and I by no means think it was a bad plan (I'd have probably 4bet which I don't think is good either) but how are you playing post? What's your plans on different flop types?

I think it's just a pretty awkward spot. The main problem I have with flatting is that our relative position sucks balls and we are giving MP pretty awesome odds to come along with his draws. Another thing to think about is that if he doesn't have a sample on SB then this can seem like a fantastic spot to 4bet bluff because your range looks really capped. Whereas MP's range is going to be really strong.

edit - The last part is just a comment to think about, not something I think is happening in this hand.

[Cobra_1878]

Does anyone think SB could be 3betting a little lighter than a standard 16/14/3 to try and ISO the fish?

I wasn't too sure how to play post. If it comes A or K high, I call a cbet or bet the flop once and then I am done if I get a call. If I flop an overpair I'm obviously not going crazy but it depends on board run out as to what I decide to do.

I had no intention of 4betting as I thought that was the worst of my options and I didn't want to fold to the 3bet because that seems a little too nitty.

[eugmac]

What is your hypothetical "slightly lighter" range for SB?

[Cobra_1878]

What is your hypothetical "slightly lighter" range for SB?

88-JJ, AQ, maybe AJ. Or is that too optimistic?

[eugmac]

You really think he's value 3betting 88 here? what would his postflop plan be? Yes I think that range you give makes little sense.

[Cobra_1878]

I'm not sure he's value 3betting altogether.

[BorisTheSpider]

It would be unusual for a 16/14 to squeeze as a bluff here, then reshove to isolate when he gets 4bet. I think you've got to give him credit for a hand.

It's an interesting spot, I'm folding.

I'm also taking notes on MP, as this flat-then-4bet line can be one of two things from a fish - something really wierd like QJo or 66 that gets frustrated and rage-shoves, or it can be the stone nizzles.

[griffey24]

I think the reason we're not 4b QQ here in the first place is that SB is tight and we don't think we're doing too hot vs his 3b/5b range. Nothing has changed here, other than another player has now shown some strength too and SB still doesn't care.

Didn't want to 4b call off in the first place, so def fold now when we're potentially worried about two ranges.