Looking to purchase new mid range gaming pc. Any helps and advices appreciated!

[speedcake]

hey all,

So I'm in the market for a new desktop to be used for gaming. I am looking to spend $1k or less and not hate life while trying to collect frps.

Browsing Newegg and so far and have been looking at something like this:

Newegg.com - CyberpowerPC Gamer Ultra 2126 Desktop PC AMD FX-Series FX-8120(3.1GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB HDD Capacity NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 2GB Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

Mid range graphics card which gets good reviews, but only 8 gigs of ram.

Is this about the best I can hope for while trying to stay under my wife induced budget?

Anyone have a suggestion for a better rig within my budget?

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

-speedy

[kiwiMark]

iPad

[Pascal]

iPad

[bigred]

Haha! Pascal is going to fit in just fine.

[speedcake]

yeah, no.

[bikes]

i have board and ge00fish on teh case sir

[speedcake]

awesome, thx. Baard is great halps so far.

[mbiz]

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rmp_sg_...ming_configs_1 afaik is kept up to date. Prices are australian in $Au so you could prol get better for cheaper.

[a500lbgorilla]

Newegg.com - Open Box: ASUS N53SV-EH71 Notebook Intel Core i7 2670QM(2.20GHz) 15.6" 6GB Memory DDR3 500GB HDD 7200rpm DL DVD±RW/CD-RW NVIDIA GeForce GT 540M

I own this baby. She plays all the games.

[Pascal]

I'd go with something like this:

Newegg.com - CyberpowerPC Gamer Xtreme 1342 Desktop PC Intel Core i5 3570k(3.40GHz) 8GB DDR3 1TB HDD Capacity AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB PCI-e Graphics Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit

It's towards the top of your budget, but that's what the idea of a budget is right? 8GB of RAM is fine.

[Jack Sawyer]

Speedcake,

building one is pretty much idiot proof these days and a much better value. This has been said time and time again, but is important enough that it should be repeated.

Go here and here and follow the white rabbit.

[boost]

ya, I 100% agree with Jack. It may seem intimidating, but it really isn't. And if you are worried about a warranty, pretty much all parts come with warranties as good as or better than what a system builder will give you with your box. For the same budget you can build something much faster, or for less you can build something that is on equal footing. Also you can install windows yourself and avoid all the bloatware that is bundled with factory built systems.

[Pascal]

However, don't forget that while each part is covered by the warranty, the PC as a whole isn't. If you have problems, you have to work out what's wrong and fix it by yourself. If you know someone who builds PCs and can help out then go for it though

That said, if you're happy putting in the time and effort, you can build a PC with better specifications for cheaper than a worse pre-built one.

[boost]

Ya, but there are always forums. I'm sure Jack and some others on here could help you through any problems you have, and if that fails, there are computer building/hardware forums where you'd have your questions answered in no time.

[bigred]

But how will one get to the internets with a broken computer??!?!?!?! MADNESS

[Pascal]

Ya, but there are always forums. I'm sure Jack and some others on here could help you through any problems you have, and if that fails, there are computer building/hardware forums where you'd have your questions answered in no time.

It's not always that simple though. I mean, there are a million things that could go wrong, and it can be pretty hard to distinguish whether it's a fault in the power supply/memory/motherboard or even just a faulty Windows disc.

Just think it's worth pointing this stuff out - there are advantages but there are some disadvantages too That said, if you do decide to build your own I'm sure there are plenty of people (including me) who could help you out.

[boost]

It's not always that simple though. I mean, there are a million things that could go wrong, and it can be pretty hard to distinguish whether it's a fault in the power supply/memory/motherboard or even just a faulty Windows disc.

Just think it's worth pointing this stuff out - there are advantages but there are some disadvantages too That said, if you do decide to build your own I'm sure there are plenty of people (including me) who could help you out.

For sure, things could go wrong. But if you are saving 25%+ (probably quite a bit more) the chances of something really serious going wrong, are pretty minuscule in comparison. The absence of bloatware alone is worth the (tiny) risk, imo.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It goes without saying that raw CPU power is the cornerstone of your system.

I can't stress enough how vital a used computer store in your city will benefit you. Offices close down all the time and they must sell all of their 'puters to clear out the building. This means that you can get semi-decent equipment at garage sale prices. All your cords and connectors will be practically free. As well as an ugly case. You can usually find hard drives, power supplies, and I/O peripherals for about 1/2 price or less.

I 2nd that 8 GB of RAM is plenty. You'll probably only regularly use about 2 GB unless you are running some pretty expensive software or high-end games. Even if you ARE doing that, in my experience, sink the monies into the video card. Most of the performance issues will be graphical in nature, and high-end video cards have their own RAM.

If you're NOT doing that, then a high speed hard drive will probably give you better daily performance than increasing the amount/speed of your RAM. You can buy a primary hard drive that is small, but wicked fast for your OS and programs, and a large, slow hard drive for data storage.

Don't be afraid to build in stages, either. You might know that you want to have 8 GB of RAM, but you may be able to buy the chips in pairs, and that means you can run your new system @ 4 GB of RAM for a while before you upgrade to 8. You might know that in a few months, you'll have a birthday and want to upgrade to 2 video cards, so that Skyrim looks that much more awesome... so make sure your first video card runs solo or tandem, and you can buy the first one slightly lower quality than you really want, because you can deal with it for the short term until you boost it up.

[Pascal]

When you talk about a fast main hard drive and a slower data storage, do you mean he should get an SSD? You're looking at ~$85 for a 120GB SSD, which is probably about the same price you'd pay for a 7,200rpm hard drive. Don't get anything other than a 7.2k rpm hard drive (that's the speed it spins at), there's just no point (too expensive to get + and 5k rpm drives are just really outdated)

Graphics cards do have RAM, but they don't replace the need for system RAM. Given 8GB is pretty cheap these days, you should be going for that.

Don't buy used hard drives or power supplies. Hard drives are easily damaged by a hard knock and don't last forever, especially in hot office PCs while power supplies tend to be where corners are cut by commercial companies. A cheap power supply in an office PC won't be anywhere near enough to power a mid end gaming PC.

Two graphics cards would also require a compatible motherboard, so don't forget about that.

My advice would be to look at a PC as close to $1k as possible, and then copy the specifications and see how much a similar PC with exactly the same processor, memory, graphics card, operating system and hard drive would be if you built it yourself - also factoring in a power supply (you want ~600W I think), a motherboard, a DVD drive and a case. Don't forget these components will tend to be higher quality than the ones you'd find in a pre-built computer.

[joker131]

what ever u buy think about keeping a quarter off you buget to buy a good graphics card with 2gig off ram. most inturnal cards dont play the best games that u will want to play. also u will most probabley have to buy a better power supply to support the graphics card u just purchased

[Renton]

IMO definitely build one, and with every component avoid going into diminishing returns of performance. Usually there is a sweet spot for pricing where you'd have to spend twice as much to get something 5-10% better. The only thing I would consider splurging on is the GPU. When I built my computer a couple of years ago, iirc the most costly things (in order) were gpu, processor, motherboard, distantly followed by ram and the tower, everything else was dirt cheap.

[boost]

IMO definitely build one, and with every component avoid going into diminishing returns of performance. Usually there is a sweet spot for pricing where you'd have to spend twice as much to get something 5-10% better. The only thing I would consider splurging on is the GPU. When I built my computer a couple of years ago, iirc the most costly things (in order) were gpu, processor, motherboard, distantly followed by ram and the tower, everything else was dirt cheap.

This is probably the best post in this thread.

[bigred]

Is there a real reason to get an SSD drive?

[Renton]

I've never used one but I hear they are the bomb.

[Jack Sawyer]

It is only the single most important item you need in order to make your computer fly.

Just that.



After you use one, you will understand.

[lolzzz_321]

It is only the single most important item you need in order to make your computer fly.

Just that.



After you use one, you will understand.

+alot

[bigred]

It is only the single most important item you need in order to make your computer fly.

Just that.



After you use one, you will understand.

Seems to be expensive. I'm assuming you'd buy an SSD and a regular HD for your desktop. What process would you use to split data, etc?

[lolzzz_321]

id install your os and shit you're going to use frequently on the ssd then id prolly install the hdd and put stuff you use less frequently on it (when you load a new program, client files, tentacle pr0n etc it'll ask you what drive to save to)

right now i just have a 128 gb sdd and im fine (i stream my music and install a few games form steam at a time when i play them)

[Jack Sawyer]

That is why I love Linux; you can mount any folder anywhere you like in the fs if you know your way around /etc/fstab. On windows it can also be done using symlinks, but that is some more advanced kung fu that apparently there's an app for.

Translation;
Step 1: get an SSD and a 2TB green drive. Put your OS files and frequently used applications (and game installs) on the SSD and all your porn on the green drive.
Step 2: profit!

[bigred]

I realize I'm a computing super noob now but why do I need the profile in a different place for using an SSD?

My plan, as already stated, is host OS and apps on SSD; music, movies, pictures, etc on 2 TB HD

[bigred]

Jack, I looked at this link: Best Mainstream Gaming PC | Hardware Revolution

I'm thinking of getting most of the tier6 or 7 things. Comes out to about 1600. What's your thoughts on that?

[bigred]

Jack, I looked at this link: Best Mainstream Gaming PC | Hardware Revolution

I'm thinking of getting most of the tier6 or 7 things. Comes out to about 1600. What's your thoughts on that?

Except I'll get the 2 sticks of 8GB for 16ram corsair. Not sure I like the recommended case.

[Jack Sawyer]

I realize I'm a computing super noob now but why do I need the profile in a different place for using an SSD?

My plan, as already stated, is host OS and apps on SSD; music, movies, pictures, etc on 2 TB HD

Your "My Documents", "My Music", "My Pictures", "My Movies" etc. locations are all part of your user profile. If you simply want to keep your things there, instead of using non default locations, you should put all profiles on the slower disk, not the quickest one. It has been a while since I used windows, but iirc win7 introduced libraries which allowed you to easily add more locations to host specific filetypes.

Those files are what consumes the most space after all. App and game installs not as much.

Plus, if you are formatting, you will keep all your files intact if they are on a different disk/partition. There are many advantages to doing this.


But that is optional of course. You can simply keep the default windows install with user profiles and all on the SSD, and manually put everything big on the 2TB.

Jack, I looked at this link: Best Mainstream Gaming PC | Hardware Revolution

I'm thinking of getting most of the tier6 or 7 things. Comes out to about 1600. What's your thoughts on that?

Quite a powerful machine. One thing of note though: if you just want to overclock the hell out of it then get a "K" processor and appropriate cooler; if you want to run a lot of VMs, then get the non-"K" processor.

Get a mobo that features native thunderbolt ports. Thunderbolt is the next big thing.

[Keith]

IMO definitely build one, and with every component avoid going into diminishing returns of performance. Usually there is a sweet spot for pricing where you'd have to spend twice as much to get something 5-10% better. The only thing I would consider splurging on is the GPU. When I built my computer a couple of years ago, iirc the most costly things (in order) were gpu, processor, motherboard, distantly followed by ram and the tower, everything else was dirt cheap.

I'll echo most of what Renton said except for power supply. Get a decent power supply as the voltages/watts claimed by cheap power supplies are achieved on a good day with a following wind at their peak . A decent supply will give stable voltages rather than voltage spikes ,have multiple rails (helps spread the peak load preventing low voltages causing problems) and modular cables which means that you just plu in the cables you need which reduces the clutter in the case which improves airflow which helps keep your expensive components cool and less likely to fail.

When power supplies fail , its quite likely that it will fry some of your other components as well. THeres no point saving 20 or 30$ (no idea on the price differences betwen good and bad in the us) when you could be jeopardizing another 1000$ of components in the rest of your computer .


Another major benefit of building your own is that once you've done it once you won't buy another again and when you need increased performance you just upgrade the parts you need to rather than going out and buying a whole new computer.

If its your first build , also consider looking for a case that features a removable motherboard tray. You'll find it a lot easier lining pins up as visibility and access are better and when you actually fit the tray into the case everything is firmer and you will be holding the tray rather than the motherboard.

[bigred]

Those are good points. I think the tier 7 cpu and ram might be a little much. I have a little bit of a chip n my shoulder when it comes to CPUs as the first time I built my PC I invested huge on the gpu, but not on the cpu, and ended up suffering 2 years later on performance. I agree with you on the removable tray, Keith, as I haven't built a PC in ten years. That might be a huge help.

[bigred]

If you guys don't mind, let's do this part by part:

For GPU, I'm 95% set on this: Newegg.com - EVGA 02G-P4-2683-KR GeForce GTX 680 Superclocked, Signature 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

[bigred]

@Jack, I don't plan on running many (or any) VMs on my machine. I'm not really into overclocking but want to make sure I have enough juice to shoot that guy in the head faster than he can shoot me in the head.

As for Thunderbolt mobos, any recs?

I'm thinking about getting this CPU:Amazon.com: Intel Core i7-3770K Quad-Core Processor 3.5 GHz 8 MB Cache LGA 1155 - BX80637I73770K: Computers & Accessories

It seems to be one of the more powerful CPUs right before the jump to the $500 range. Thoughts?

[Jack Sawyer]

Videocard is too expensive, but if you got the budget go for it. CPU is OK.

As for mobo's, it depends on the case you want to put it in. Videocard length as well. If you want a small case like the FT03, the PS07 or the Define Mini get a goo mATX like the Asus Maximus Gene V. It does not have thunderbolt though. The Z77MX-D3H-TH has thunderbolt, but I'm afraid it's not out yet so no reviews. (mind the *TH* in the name, the one sans TH is out, but its now what you want)

If you go with a big case like the FT02, RV03, Storm Trooper (my fave) or if you really have money like an Arab sheik for you to get the TJ11, you can get ATX to EATX cases. The GA-Z77X-UP5 TH is a popular mobo (really good for hackintoshes) and also the DZ77RE-75K (no good for hackintoshes, no driver thunderbolt support if you go that route as it has a Cactus Ridge controller, unsupported in OS X. Windows will be fine though).

[bigred]

Yeah. I'm ok with splurging on the vid card. So CPU seems ok in your books? Should I go more expensive, find an alternative?

I'm looking at your recs for mobo and case and I'm a little apprehensive about paying that much for either. A lot of the motherboards I was looking at come in the 120-150 range. Is 200ish the price I am going to pay to purchase a thunderbolt mobo?

As for the case, I want a "normal" or large tower, don't need minis, and want it to be relatively quiet. The fiance will whine to no end if it's loud.

Found the storm trooper: Amazon.com: CM Storm Trooper - Gaming Full Tower Computer Case with Carrying Handle (SGC-5000-KKN1): Electronics

Seems cool, but do I need it?

[bigred]

As for storage, I don't mind paying for the following:

SSD: Amazon.com: SanDisk Extreme SSD 240 GB SATA 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive SDSSDX-240G-G25: Computers & Accessories

HD: Amazon.com: Western Digital 2 TB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Bare or OEM Drives WD20EFRX: Computers & Accessories

However, do I need 240 GB for an SSD? I would think so with OS sprawl and video game sizes but I appreciate your input.

[Jack Sawyer]

Well, according to computing lore the place where you need to spend the most money is in the case, power supply and then motherboard. The case and the psu are expected to last the longest, then the mobo (nowadays these do change rapidly).

That's the thing about the case. Whether you need it or not, only you know the answer to that question. It is personal preference, but I'm assembling the next edition of a server tower with a ton of hotswap drives, so it makes sense for me, plus i like how it looks. That said, I think something like the FT02 fits you better.

For SSD, get this one: Amazon.com: Samsung Electronics 840 Pro Series 2.5-Inch 256 SATA_6_0_gb Solid State Drive MZ-7PD256BW: Electronics it's just out, people are already sayin it's the holy grail.

For hard disks, get two of these and run them in RAID0 Newegg.com - Western Digital WD RE4 WD1003FBYX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Enterprise Hard Drive -Bare Drive . Get two more down the road and make your raid 0+1

Yes, thunderbolt is new and there are not a lot of peripherals for it. That is the early adopter tax. But, it's the future according to Intel and Apple.

[Jack Sawyer]

The Storm Trooper is MASSIVE. The FT02 and the RV03 both have much more manageable size.

[bigred]

Super noob question. What's the advantage to running a raid0 with two TB drives versus one 2 TB drive?

Also, never configured raid before. Simple? Pointers?

[boost]

when your drive first spins, it hits its peak RPM. In a raid0 setup the data is split between the two drives so that when a particular piece of data is being accessed it is being pulled from drive A a little bit, then drive B a little bit. This way peak RPM is constantly delivered.

It was introduced before SSDs. I personally feel like it's a bit redundant now if you've got a large SSD for all your games and OS.

[Pascal]

Well, according to computing lore the place where you need to spend the most money is in the case, power supply and then motherboard.

I've never heard of spending the most money on the case - I know plenty of people who have a fairly average case but a great setup inside. If you're building a server setup with hot-swappable drives you're in very difficult circles to me though!

If you want to play games, your key components will be your:

Power supply
Motherboard
Processor
Memory
Graphics card

With your budget, you can get very good quality products in every area. If you had less money, I'd advise buying a cheaper processor or less memory as these are upgradable in the future but I think you've got enough money to go for everything at least medium if not high end straight away.

I'd avoid Thunderbolt for now for the reason JackSawyer said - there's an early adopter tax. Also remember that seeing as 99.9% of people don't have Thunderbolt compatible PCs, they'll have to have adapters/add-in cards/etc to make sure that everyone can use it, or they'll have USB as well as Thunderbolt on the device.

I think a single 2TB 7.2k RPM drive will be more than fast enough with the SSD for vital/commonly used software. Having your storage drives in RAID0 makes no sense to me as it doubles the chance of failure while giving a kinda unnecessary boost in speed. RAID0+1 makes your drives redundant but costs you a full drive in space. I don't think you'll necessarily need 240GB of space on the SSD either - you'll only be keeping key stuff on there so decide yourself whether the saving is worth it.

For the motherboard, I'd pick a quality brand on a platform you like but it doesn't necessarily have to be expensive. Tons of motherboards these days have ridiculously unnecessary features like LED lighting systems and millions of ports you'll never use. There's a lot of trusted brands out there - Asus, AsRock (Asus' budget brand), MSI, Gigabyte for example.

Just my 2 cents - I think I come from a different PC background to JackSawyer which would explain our different answers

EDIT: Just to expand a bit of RAID0 and add an analogy. Basically, imagine you have a warehouse with one employee. An order comes in and your supervisor tells you what you need - 20 boxes from all across the warehouse. You go and get the 20 boxes and give them to him. That's a single hard drive. Now imagine that there's 2 of you and the supervisor tells you he needs 10 boxes from each of you - obviously it's ~twice as fast, limited by how fast the supervisor can tell each of you what he needs. That's RAID0.

On the other hand, RAID1 involves writing the same thing twice to two different disks - a master and a slave copy. That way, if one hard drive dies, the other just takes over with no problems until you replace the dead hard drive and it copies all the stuff over again. You lose a bit of performance but gain instant backups.

[Jack Sawyer]

A case has the potential to go through several builds, not just the current one. That is why it simply makes sense to get the best case you can get, and this is 100% of the time going to be more expensive than getting an el-cheapo case.

[Pascal]

That's true, but if I had a limited budget the case is one of the areas I'd rather spend $50 on an average model than $200 on a top of the range model to gain performance from the PC as a whole, especially as I would expect the components inside the PC to last 4 or 5 years and I wouldn't really see any drawbacks to having a cheaper case once it's been built.

For example, you can get a CM Scout for $65 delivered which is a nice case and which would last for at least 2 or 3 builds if you're careful, saving you $100 over the full tower Trooper.

[Pascal]

Oops, link to Storm Scout: Amazon.com: CM Storm Scout - Gaming Mid Tower Computer Case with Carrying Handles (SGC-2000-KKN1-GP): Electronics

[bigred]

So here's a link to what Jack and I discussed on Skype: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BcVBBY0E#gid=0

Seems a little pricey but not out of my range. Doesn't take into account extra fans, monitors, keyboard, and mouse.

[Jack Sawyer]

Why would I not get the Storm Scout?

• If in your next build you want to go the watercooling route, you cannot use the Scout without drilling into it.
• It's internal 3.5" bays aren't even caddies, they're just "supports" in which you *most likely* put screws in the side of your hard drives and drive them in, and then you still got to connect the cabling etc.
• Its front has only 5 5.25" bays, adecuate for just 6 additional hotswap hard drives with the additional required cage.
• I highly doubt it has a toolless assembly.
• I don't know (but would wager they didn't care about it) if the interior is devoid of sharp corners.
• I'd still got to put money in it to get proper silent no-led fans.
• There's no sound-deadening material applied to the sides of the cages, which means I'd have to go the DIY route.
• It's 2012 and there are no USB3 ports anywhere to be found? It does have eSATA and firewire(which died recently)
• Only Micro-ATX/ATX? No E-ATX, no SSI-CEB (so no bigger ASUS ROG series fit)?
• It looks as if cable management will not be easy in this case, but I may be wrong .

The Storm Trooper is twice the price, but has all of these things covered to a t (no sound deadening though). The FT02 as well, except for the front bays of which it has exactly the same amount, but it costs three times as much. The TJ11 has all the things mentioned above and more (two 180mm Air Penetrator super silent fans standard) but costs 10 times as much as the Storm Scout. Each and every one of these cases look better as well, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point (yay pun!): This is my current server case. In black, of course. I bought this in '04 for around $400, $200 for the case and the rest shipping and taxes. I stil have it, it's still solid, and it lasted me through at least 4 builds, including simply laying around empty when all I had was a laptop.

There is no discernible rust on the outside, I can sit on it and it retains its structural integrity, and I cannot complain about its performance cause everything is always cool in it, there is no rattling, no suspect vibration, no bent PCI Slots that all of a sudden don't fit, no suspect airflow, nothing.

I'm going to get rid of it though because I got tired of it, and I want me some front panel USB3 and eSATA. Other than that, I could still have this case for like another 10 years no problem.

For my next build, and when I think ahead, the Storm Scout is just a bad idea, if I can't afford better now I just hold off plans until I can. In the words of some old wise man: you get what you pay for. I expect to be with the same case for a long time, so I always splurge in this spot.

[Jack Sawyer]

So here's a link to what Jack and I discussed on Skype: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...BcVBBY0E#gid=0

Seems a little pricey but not out of my range. Doesn't take into account extra fans, monitors, keyboard, and mouse.

Change the mobo to this one and you are golden. The MSI got too much bad press, didn't see that on the pad

http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Intel...s=gigabyte+z77

[Pascal]

Why would I not get the Storm Scout?

• If in your next build you want to go the watercooling route, you cannot use the Scout without drilling into it.
• It's internal 3.5" bays aren't even caddies, they're just "supports" in which you *most likely* put screws in the side of your hard drives and drive them in, and then you still got to connect the cabling etc.
• Its front has only 5 5.25" bays, adecuate for just 6 additional hotswap hard drives with the additional required cage.
• I highly doubt it has a toolless assembly.
• I don't know (but would wager they didn't care about it) if the interior is devoid of sharp corners.
• I'd still got to put money in it to get proper silent no-led fans.
• There's no sound-deadening material applied to the sides of the cages, which means I'd have to go the DIY route.
• It's 2012 and there are no USB3 ports anywhere to be found? It does have eSATA and firewire(which died recently)
• Only Micro-ATX/ATX? No E-ATX, no SSI-CEB (so no bigger ASUS ROG series fit)?
• It looks as if cable management will not be easy in this case, but I may be wrong .

The Storm Trooper is twice the price, but has all of these things covered to a t (no sound deadening though). The FT02 as well, except for the front bays of which it has exactly the same amount, but it costs three times as much. The TJ11 has all the things mentioned above and more (two 180mm Air Penetrator super silent fans standard) but costs 10 times as much as the Storm Scout. Each and every one of these cases look better as well, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point (yay pun!): This is my current server case. In black, of course. I bought this in '04 for around $400, $200 for the case and the rest shipping and taxes. I stil have it, it's still solid, and it lasted me through at least 4 builds, including simply laying around empty when all I had was a laptop.

There is no discernible rust on the outside, I can sit on it and it retains its structural integrity, and I cannot complain about its performance cause everything is always cool in it, there is no rattling, no suspect vibration, no bent PCI Slots that all of a sudden don't fit, no suspect airflow, nothing.

I'm going to get rid of it though because I got tired of it, and I want me some front panel USB3 and eSATA. Other than that, I could still have this case for like another 10 years no problem.

For my next build, and when I think ahead, the Storm Scout is just a bad idea, if I can't afford better now I just hold off plans until I can. In the words of some old wise man: you get what you pay for. I expect to be with the same case for a long time, so I always splurge in this spot.

1. Watercooling? He's building a first time PC, not a sick overclocking setup. There is no need for watercooling unless you are overclocking, and it's far too high maintenance/technical for a first time builder.

2. He's not going to be using hotswap bays, ever. He's building a home PC, not a server. When would he ever need to hot swap a hard drive?

3. I doubt it has tool-less assembly either, but he's going to be building the PC once and then most likely not touching it again for 2 years. Tool-less assembly isn't worth $100.


I've got a case which is probably 6 or 7 years old with a rig that's ~2 years old. Sure, it doesn't make people go wow, but the case was cheap as hell and I have no need to go inside it. Would I like to get a new one at some point - sure. Is it something I'd spend money on instead of something else - no.

It sounds like you are taking what you want in a PC and telling bigred he should have it, rather than suggesting him things he'd benefit from having in his PC. 32GB of memory is so unnecessary - 16GB is way more than enough.

The fanless power supply is a waste of money if you're trying to keep the value down - any PSU with a 140mm fan will be basically silent, and you'll be able to get a 750W power supply for half the price. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 500W power supply if he wanted to upgrade certain parts in the future.

Why doesn't he save $60 by getting a different motherboard? I can see no features he would ever use regularly enough which are worth a massive $100 extra.

Amazon.com: Gigabyte Intel Z77 LGA 1155 Dual UEFI BIOS ATX Motherboard GA-Z77-DS3H: Electronics


IMO, save $100 on the case, $100 on the motherboard, $80 on the power supply, $65 on the memory, $60 on the SSD (drop to 128GB here) bump the graphics card back up to the GTX 680 for $70 more, and you'll also have over $300 in your back pocket with a more powerful, stable, upgradable PC with the only features lost ones that you never would have taken advantage of in the first place

[Pascal]

I should probably also say why I feel qualified to give advice - I have over 10k posts on a PC forum, and while I haven't been active for at least a year, maybe two years now, I still keep in touch with PC technology. That forum was packed with people with way more money than me, given I was a broke student, and I learnt pretty quickly when building PCs using part-time job wages that there are plenty of corners you can cut to be able to have a PC that's just as good as someone else's just without the flashy lights and top range prices. Like you said, there's a middle ground to be found - a place where the price/performance ratio suits you perfectly - and a $200 motherboard with Thunderbolt when you're trying to spend $1k or less just doesn't fit into that. Don't get dragged in by the fact there's always something a bit better, and make sensible choices. That fanless PSU is complete overkill in the noise department and is costing you nearly $100 over an essentially silent 140mm PSU which is going to be more efficient and offer more upgrade options! and so on and so on.

[Jack Sawyer]

The post starts with "Why would I not get the Storm Scout?" Obviously, I show why I would not get it.

1. Watercooling? He's building a first time PC, not a sick overclocking setup. There is no need for watercooling unless you are overclocking, and it's far too high maintenance/technical for a first time builder.

Why not watercooling? We are talking the next build, and for that the sky is the limit. Why limit yourself now?

2. He's not going to be using hotswap bays, ever. He's building a home PC, not a server. When would he ever need to hot swap a hard drive?

"Why would I not get the Storm Scout?"

3. I doubt it has tool-less assembly either, but he's going to be building the PC once and then most likely not touching it again for 2 years. Tool-less assembly isn't worth $100.

Ummm, no. When something goes kaput, its gotta be easy to get in there and get outta there as quickly as possible and without hurting yourself. When you want to replace an item, add a new one or do whatever you want to do in there, it should be as easy as can be. I'm not building a mac, i.e. a machine I'll never enter because there might be dragons in there.

I've got a case which is probably 6 or 7 years old with a rig that's ~2 years old. Sure, it doesn't make people go wow, but the case was cheap as hell and I have no need to go inside it. Would I like to get a new one at some point - sure. Is it something I'd spend money on instead of something else - no.

Well that's great. I got an old case with new internals too, and I've had several types of builds within it. At some point I had a gaming computer as well, and then I didn't give a shit about games anymore. Nowadays it's setup with 12 hard drives internally and I'm running out of room. If I did buy a case with just 4 or 5 5.25 bays to begin with, it would have been impossible to setup this particular build with it.

It sounds like you are taking what you want in a PC and telling bigred he should have it, rather than suggesting him things he'd benefit from having in his PC. 32GB of memory is so unnecessary - 16GB is way more than enough.

At one point 640K of memory was enough. I swear to god I'm going to shoot the next person who tells me "but you don't need X amount of RAM". Memory is dirtcheap nowadays compared to just two years ago. Why not max out your mobo for $130? Whereas, comparatively, this 2 stick kit of 16GB costs $110 (and this one's $86). It's a gaming build, and always forever since the dawn of time gaming computers were much more powerful than the average computers.

The fanless power supply is a waste of money if you're trying to keep the value down - any PSU with a 140mm fan will be basically silent, and you'll be able to get a 750W power supply for half the price. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a 500W power supply if he wanted to upgrade certain parts in the future.

This is an 80+ platinum power supply, the most efficient there is AFAIK on the market today. Because its so efficient, it also runs ultra cool. And fanless. More than capable of driving the expected load. Basically, you get what you paid for.

Bigred wants his computer to be as silent as possible for his significant other, and it does not get any more silent than that.

Why doesn't he save $60 by getting a different motherboard? I can see no features he would ever use regularly enough which are worth a massive $100 extra.

Amazon.com: Gigabyte Intel Z77 LGA 1155 Dual UEFI BIOS ATX Motherboard GA-Z77-DS3H: Electronics

Except this one has only two USB3 ports. The one I linked to has 6 USB3 ports on the back panel. And two thunderbolt ports. And more. The definition of Future-proof. Big deal? Well, maybe today it isn't if you don't mind copying stuff at 15~25MB/s instead of 80~100MB/s. But very soon down the road it will.

IMO, save $100 on the case, $100 on the motherboard, $80 on the power supply, $65 on the memory, $60 on the SSD (drop to 128GB here) bump the graphics card back up to the GTX 680 for $70 more, and you'll also have over $300 in your back pocket with a more powerful, stable, upgradable PC with the only features lost ones that you never would have taken advantage of in the first place

A quick note: SWTOR alone has a 20GB install size. And GTA IV complete edition 30GB. That's 16% and 25% respectively of a 128GB SSD gone to a single damn game. This is without mentioning how some SSDs perform worse as they get full. A 128GB SSD is awesome if you are an office guy, playing in spreadsheets, or just install a single game at a time, but that is not how gamers do it, or at least not how we rolled back in my time.

I actually believe even a 256GB is not necessarily enough for this particular scenario.

That fanless PSU is complete overkill in the noise department and is costing you nearly $100 over an essentially silent 140mm PSU which is going to be more efficient and offer more upgrade options! and so on and so on.

Ummm, no. See above. Plus, according to this, it should handle SLI down the road fine.

I should probably also say why I feel qualified to give advice - I have over 10k posts on a PC forum, and while I haven't been active for at least a year, maybe two years now, I still keep in touch with PC technology. That forum was packed with people with way more money than me, given I was a broke student, and I learnt pretty quickly when building PCs using part-time job wages that there are plenty of corners you can cut to be able to have a PC that's just as good as someone else's just without the flashy lights and top range prices. Like you said, there's a middle ground to be found - a place where the price/performance ratio suits you perfectly - and a $200 motherboard with Thunderbolt when you're trying to spend $1k or less just doesn't fit into that. Don't get dragged in by the fact there's always something a bit better, and make sensible choices.

I'm just an all-around IT guy and notorious researcher who has been at it for at least 10 years.

On to the bold part, and I believe the root of the confusion brewing here: bigred's budget.



I'm not trying to shoot you down or fighting with you or whatever Pascal, but I do think you are fundamentally wrong when it comes to cases, ergo we disagree. But you are allowed to have your opinion about everything, just like everyone else. So if you like your cases cheap, have at it hoss!

[bigred]

The case is the one non-negotiable thing. It needs to be borderline silent. Fiance is sensitive so sound and will not tolerate whirring fans on a desktop computer.

[Pascal]

I think you make some good points JackSawyer, and fair enough - well played

I'm going to stick by the one change that I would make is to change the PSU to a cheaper, 140mm fan model - which will genuinely be close to silent - and use the extra money to upgrade the graphics card from a GTX470 to a GTX480 without changing the budget. The fanless PSU will get hot anyway - looking at the review here the case temperature with the fanless PSU goes up to 55C, which means your other fans will have to work harder.

Jack - if he wants a silent PSU, you'll need to recommend a CPU heatsink.

Bigred - at the moment, the loudest part of your PC by far will be the graphics card when gaming. You can see that just by looking at it; that small fan is going to spin superfast. I did some searches and it looks like, when gaming, your graphics card will be ~50db which while not loud, isn't silent. Tom's Hardware review GTX670's here:

Seven Solid GeForce GTX 670s, But Three Stand Out : Seven GeForce GTX 670 Cards, Benchmarked And Reviewed

for noise specifically. It would be $20 extra to get an Asus card with the cooler they recommend:

Amazon.com: ASUS GeForce GTX 670-DC2-2GD5 VGA - 2GB GDDR5 - GPU Tweak - PCIE 3.0 Graphics Card Graphics Cards GTX670-DC2-2GD5: Electronics

[bigred]

Yeah. What other fans do I need for the case? CPU heatsink rec?

[bigred]

BTW, I like the rec for the asus gpu, ty.

[bigred]

Also, regarding the GTX 680, I'm having trouble justifying the extra $100 for arguably 10% more power. I'd feel better with a silent power supply that seems to have great reviews.

[Pascal]

I'd save your money and get a PSU with a big fan then. That PSU will take the case heat up, making the average temperature hotter and forcing all the other fans to blow harder. You'd be better off getting a PSU with a temperature controlled, 140mm fan and spending some of the extra money you saved on high quality fans which you can use a cheap in line fan controller cable to make them spin slower and sound quieter I like the idea of the fanless PSU, I'm just not sure if it'll actually help make your PC any quieter.

You'll only need a 3rd party CPU (processor) heatsink - the Asus one comes with a well reviewed one and changing the GPU heatsink can be very fiddly + voids the warranty. Chipsets don't put enough out heat to need anything other than passive cooling with help from the case fans. Noctua are the best quality but they aren't cheap; you're talking $80 to $90 for the CPU heatsink, which seems overkill to me. That said, the fans are great quality, and one like this:

Newegg.com - Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler

Would be ridiculously quiet and remove the need for a back fan on the case, so you'd just need a single fan for the front.

[Jack Sawyer]

I like the idea of the fanless PSU, I'm just not sure if it'll actually help make your PC any quieter.

Check the case again. The psu location is key, as it keeps it on its own power envelope.

The kingwin is so efficient it just has to run cool. A relevant review can be found here Fanless PSUs: Kingwin Stryker STR-500 & Silverstone ST50NF | silentpcreview.com

I like that noctua, but i'd go a bit smaller for this build. I'd throw in a hyper 212 evo, replace the fan it has with a noctua nf-f12. Im a CM homer apparently.

[bigred]

So why am I macguyvering a cpu fan?

[bigred]

So which version of windows 7 do I want?

[a500lbgorilla]

64 bit.

[Jack Sawyer]

So why am I macguyvering a cpu fan?

Silent-er, no vibration, you can be mcgyver for a day.


Win 8 like 60% off and shit (if you already have a copy of 7 laying around)
Amazon.com: Microsoft Windows 8 Pro: Software

If you don't, its expensive
Amazon.com: Windows 8 Professional System Builder DVD 64-Bit: Software

[bigred]

Isn't being an early adopter of a new Windows OS a bad, bad idea?

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, I'm skipping Windows 8.

[Pascal]

Same here, 7 is great though.

[Jack Sawyer]

Tons of people are still on WinXP as well. Just let it go


Embrace the future. How bad can Win8 be?

**BTW, I don't know. I haven't used windows in quite a while. I havent been following the beta's of 8 neither, I just see that as usual there are a lot of people hatin', a lot of people lovin' in tech circles everywhere.

**Back in the day, I did get 7 on launch day.

[Pascal]

From what I've read, not great, and why pay an early adopter tax and have to be constantly irritating by bugs and programs not working properly when you can use Windows 7 and upgrade in a years time when the price will have come down anyway?

[NightGizmo]

Windows versions alternate between being really good and really bad. Windows 7 is really good -- I don't think you should jump into Windows 8 until you know what it's like. Look what happened to early adopters of Windows Vista.

[Jack Sawyer]

... And Millenium Edition. I would peronally give M$ the benefit of the dout here though. Since 7, they seem to have gottentheir game together.

This is your windows then
Amazon.com: Windows 7 Professional SP1 64bit (Full) System Builder DVD 1 Pack: Software

Ultimate is overkill (and not useful/worth it imo), home edition is too limited.

[Pascal]

What's difference between Professional v Home Edition? Windows site just suggests business extras for Pro but I imagine that isn't the whole story

[Jack Sawyer]

Absence of Backup and Restore to whatever you want in the Home ed. is the most relevant thing. Plus, XP mode.

[bigred]

So what are we thinking for a gaming keyboard and mouse? Bonus points if it's from best buy. I got gift cards!