Did I play this right?

[shotz69]

For some reason this hand is still bothering me and I dont know if I would play it any different the next time I got it. Figured I would see what others had to say about it.

*********** # 27 **************
PokerStars Game #677475764: Tournament #2610795, Hold'em No Limit - Level III
(25/50) - 2004/09/08 - 22:14:26 (ET)
Table '2610795 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: ranncid (2910 in chips)
Seat 3: Bhaminc (1080 in chips)
Seat 4: shotz69 (170 in chips)
Seat 5: harris315 (2210 in chips)
Seat 6: tablerock57 (2330 in chips)
Seat 7: mijase (655 in chips)
Seat 8: 18th tee (1160 in chips)
Seat 9: bdub7 (2985 in chips)
Bhaminc: posts small blind 25
shotz69: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shotz69 [7d 5h]
harris315: calls 50
tablerock57: calls 50
mijase: folds
18th tee: folds
bdub7: folds
ranncid: calls 50
ranncid said, "nice riv"
Bhaminc: calls 25
shotz69: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d 9d Qh]
Bhaminc: checks
bdub7 said, "very"
shotz69: checks
harris315: bets 250
tablerock57: calls 250
ranncid: folds
Bhaminc: folds
shotz69: folds
*** TURN *** [6d 9d Qh] [2s]
bdub7 said, "cool clear water"
harris315: bets 100
tablerock57: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [6d 9d Qh 2s] [9h]
harris315: checks
tablerock57: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
harris315: shows [8s Ac] (a pair of Nines)
tablerock57: shows [5c 6c] (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
tablerock57 collected 950 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 950 | Rake 0
Board [6d 9d Qh 2s 9h]
Seat 2: ranncid (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Bhaminc (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: shotz69 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: harris315 showed [8s Ac] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 6: tablerock57 showed [5c 6c] and won (950) with two pair, Nines and Sixes
Seat 7: mijase folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: 18th tee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bdub7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Fnord]

I play it the same, you don't have pot odds on your gutshot. At this point you can expect so much value on your chips that I would push with any hand with a chance in the next orbit.

[allLiving]

Good fold, even if you are ultra-short stacked. You still will have roughly 100 chips after the SB and you can still double up by waiting for an Ax hand or pocket pair. Your odds are much better instead of calling on a gutshot.

[shotz69]

lol I posted the wrong hand, I wanted to post the one before it

This is the one I was talking about and why I had so few chips on the one I posted earlier.

*********** # 26 **************
PokerStars Game #677473299: Tournament #2610795, Hold'em No Limit - Level III
(25/50) - 2004/09/08 - 22:13:41 (ET)
Table '2610795 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: ranncid (2935 in chips)
Seat 3: Bhaminc (1130 in chips)
Seat 4: shotz69 (1625 in chips)
Seat 5: harris315 (2210 in chips)
Seat 6: tablerock57 (2330 in chips)
Seat 7: mijase (655 in chips)
Seat 8: 18th tee (1160 in chips)
Seat 9: bdub7 (1455 in chips)
ranncid: posts small blind 25
Bhaminc: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shotz69 [Qc Qd]
shotz69: raises 200 to 250
harris315: folds
tablerock57: folds
mijase: folds
18th tee: folds
bdub7: calls 250
ranncid: folds
Bhaminc: folds
*** FLOP *** [2d 9c Jd]
shotz69: bets 400
bdub7: calls 400
*** TURN *** [2d 9c Jd] [6s]
shotz69: bets 975 and is all-in
bdub7: calls 805 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2d 9c Jd 6s] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
shotz69: shows [Qc Qd] (a pair of Queens)
bdub7: shows [Js Ad] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
bdub7 collected 2985 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2985 | Rake 0
Board [2d 9c Jd 6s As]
Seat 2: ranncid (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Bhaminc (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: shotz69 showed [Qc Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: harris315 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: tablerock57 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: mijase folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: 18th tee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bdub7 (button) showed [Js Ad] and won (2985) with two pair, Aces and
Jacks

[Fnord]

Played it fine. The road to poker hell is paved with results oriented thinking...

[allLiving]

You played it well, just got outdrawn which happens. If I was in the AJ position I'd most likely be calling or raising against you too.

[stuck]

Maybe you could have pushed after the flop. It looks like you might just be backing up a missed PFR. Besides that, it looks pretty good to me.

[Fnord]

Maybe you could have pushed after the flop. It looks like you might just be backing up a missed PFR. Besides that, it looks pretty good to me.

Don't push, information bad. Let him think you might be taking a stab at it.

[fishstick]

Maybe you could have pushed after the flop. It looks like you might just be backing up a missed PFR. Besides that, it looks pretty good to me.

why push on the flop - he's not going anywhere. as far as he knows, he's got top pair top kicker.

and shotz - the ever popular: "you got all of your money in when you had the best of it" definitely applies here.

now, if you weren't all-in before the river, then the ace would give you something to think about.

[stuck]

Maybe you could have pushed after the flop. It looks like you might just be backing up a missed PFR. Besides that, it looks pretty good to me.

why push on the flop - he's not going anywhere. as far as he knows, he's got top pair top kicker.

Perhaps you're right, and this is probably where a big flaw of mine is. But lets say he's got two overs, say AKs (or something). With the PFR and that flop, I'd think shotz was taking a stab at it, out of position even. I personally would probably fold that bet with two overs, but the guy might re-raise shotz if he was feeling like gambling or if he felt a pot-steal. If it's a solid player, I might worry about the call there (would he really be chasing the flush draw?) and think he's slow playing a set or something.

On the turn he may well feel pot-committed (even if he had nothing more than two overs, though he could still be thinking shotz was taking another stab at the pot with a missed flop) (though i think this would a bad call with only two overs).

Certainly in this case he got his money in with far the best of it, but suppose the guy was slowplaying AA,KK?

I'm actually struggling a bit with this hand, trying to take it from the view that I *don't* know the outcome. Pretend that you don't, was this still ideally played?

I'd say push on the flop because TPTK has a good chance of calling, and if not you can still hi-tail it with the 500 chips in the pot after putting him in a tough position. Besides, suppose K or A came on the turn after *not* pushing (7 outs (assuming he has one of them), decent chance). Do some sort of (reverse?) implied odds come into play here?

[michael1123]

Stuck, I think you're way off here. First, he bets 5xBB preflop. From a solid player, as I've said before, a bet like that is usually QQ-JJ, sometimes with KK and TT thrown in, depending on the player. Then he bets near the pot size on the flop. This should not look like a bluff (even though I bluff like that sometimes, I think its pretty disguised). This is the type of bet a real hand makes, giving bad odds to chase. All in would look more specifically like QQ, but there's no reason to assume the bet of 400 is a bluff on the flop. But AJ also has to call it, and that's a good thing for you as well. AK calling would be a real bad call, much worse than calling on a flush draw. They'd have to expect that they're beat and they only have 6 outs at best (KK could be a possibility), which is a 24% chance to win. Only a 12% chance of hitting on the turn.

On the other hand, if Shotz lead out on the flop with a 250 bet, then it looks like a bluff (and may be a good move if he had something like JJ, as it begs for a reraise).

Certainly in this case he got his money in with far the best of it, but suppose the guy was slowplaying AA,KK?

Now where did this come from? Your advice is to shove in on the flop to protect your hand from overs, and then you say he should be worried about the guy having AA or KK, without any inclination that he does? If he has AA or KK, Shotz is going broke (close at least) whether he played it his way or the way you suggest, so that doesn't make any sense to me. Besides, you can't just be putting opponents on KK or AA without a good reason.

Shotz played it well, its just tough luck. You should be begging for a hand like AJ to call you on the turn, and he disguised it enough that he probably will get that call the vast majority of the time. Its a nice play.

[mike4066]

Shotz you played the second hand you posted just fine.
In fact I think you played it flawlessly.

Your PFR picked up 1 caller, your heads up. Thats how you want to play QQ. You have your caller dominated preflop, exactly what you want with QQ.

Unfortunatly for he caught his cards.

Do'nt sweat it, you did the right thing.

[shotz69]

Thanks for all the input, I am still pretty new to playing online and this was the worst I have finished in an S&G so far (only 12 S&Gs) so I wasnt sure if I played it right or was over aggressive.

[michael1123]

*blah blah double post*

[michael1123]

Wow, the play in the 2nd hand is pretty good for brand new online player. I assume you played live games beforehand?

[shotz69]

I have played a few live home games and played for play money on stars for a few months. Started with $50 about 2 weeks ago and so far I am up to $235 so I am doing pretty well. Reading the forums here have definatly helped alot.

[stuck]

Michael1123: I definately expressed my concern poorly there. I agree with you. He did play the hand well, I'm not arguing that.

I guess I was wondering why you'd *not* push all-in, but I see it now. I've become (too) wary of disguised hands over the past month or so.

What would you suggest if, after your flop bet, he re-raised all in? I'd call, of course, but I'd also be worried that he would have *me* dominated, not viceversa...

[michael1123]

Of course I'd be worried some. But its a completely different scenario. Plus, consider that if the guy had AA or KK, he was slowplaying preflop. Wouldn't he then play it slower on the flop (i.e. wait for the turn, where he's likely to put the rest of his money in)?

I'd be more worried about a set than AA or KK.