Good Lay Down?

[allLiving]

I was hesitant PREFLOP since I didn't know much about the player, but here's how it goes. I think I should have layed it down preflop in my opinion.

------HAND 3------
Game #315414643: Texas Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1) - 2005/01/05 - 21:38:43 (EST)
Table "Petaluma" Seat 7 is the button.
Seat 1: JT78 ($18 in chips)
Seat 2: Riplipp ($96.50 in chips)
Seat 3: LakisII ($12.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Alnzy_t ($7 in chips)
Seat 5: BigMike ($86.25 in chips)
Seat 6: Hopheads ($96 in chips)
Seat 7: gvn2fly ($111 in chips)
Seat 8: KULUTTAJA ($99 in chips)
Seat 9: Parabola3 ($53 in chips)
Seat 10: Ragenbull ($187 in chips)
KULUTTAJA: posts small blind $0.50
Parabola3: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Parabola3 [Qh Qd]
Ragenbull: folds
JT78: folds
Riplipp: folds
LakisII: calls $1
Alnzy_t: calls $1
BigMike: calls $1
Hopheads: folds
gvn2fly: raises to $7
KULUTTAJA: folds
Parabola3: calls $6
LakisII: folds
Alnzy_t: calls $6 and is all-in
BigMike: folds
----- FLOP ----- [4s 4c 5s]
Parabola3: checks
gvn2fly: bets $9
Parabola3: calls $9
----- TURN ----- [4s 4c 5s][9h]
Parabola3: checks
gvn2fly: bets $20
Parabola3: folds
Returned uncalled bets $20 to gvn2fly
----- RIVER ----- [4s 4c 5s 9h][Ac]

[a500lbgorilla]

Folding QQ preflop would be silly. Since you were pretty sure you were going to call 10ish bucks on the flop. Lead in to him for 10 bucks, he'll make KK or AA transparent.

I agree with the fold on the turn. His betting is too strong to be a semibluff with AK. You could make a thin case for JJ if the guy raised heavily with a lot of hands.

-'rilla

[allLiving]

His betting is too strong to be a semibluff with AK. You could make a thin case for JJ if the guy raised heavily with a lot of hands.

This was pretty much my exact thought process when he made the large bet on the turn. To me his strong bet represented KK or AA and I figured if I layed down my QQ, I'd still be able to see what his hand is since there is another fellow who is already all-in. I didn't have too much of a read on this guy but he was the largest stack at the table and it occurred to me that he might be the shark of the table.

I'll show the results once a few more people input their thoughts.
thanks

[a500lbgorilla]

Consider trying the play I suggested. Its a derivant of the limit strategy of when you know you're going to call down, why not raise the turn and see if you can win it there instead of just letting the cards speak.

Since you're pretty sure that you'll check call a bet within a certain range, make a bet within that range instead. You'll get a little bit more help with your decision.

-'rilla

[bspahn]

Yup don't really see anything wrong here, definitely call with the QQ. I was thinking on the flop there's around a $29 pot right, and the bet is $9, you could re-raise to really see what's happening, or is this generally bad play when there's three people (with one All-in).

I can't really think of anything the guy would have other than KK or AA with an outside chance of JJ, although 7xBB is a fair raise for JJ (he does have the advantage of being cutoff though right)

[bspahn]

Good point by gorilla, instead of doing a flop re-raise for information you could bet out and see what happens. If he calls and then bets $20 on the turn you're basically in the same boat, however if he raises then you're gaining information over the play that actually happened.

[Waggho]

His betting is too strong to be a semibluff with AK.

The bet is actually less than half the pot, 9/22. Would you bet less than that if you wanted to semi-bluff with AK?

Since you're pretty sure that you'll check call a bet within a certain range

Is he? Would he call the flop if there was an A or a K on the board?

[a500lbgorilla]

His betting is too strong to be a semibluff with AK.

The bet is actually less than half the pot, 9/22. Would you bet less than that if you wanted to semi-bluff with AK?

On the flop, yes. The turn removes all doubt, imo.

Since you're pretty sure that you'll check call a bet within a certain range

Is he? Would he call the flop if there was an A or a K on the board?

Um, no. So if the flop comes A or K high, check fold your hand instead of leading where you would have check/called.

-'rilla

[allLiving]

Here it is.

----- SHOW DOWN -----
gvn2fly: shows [Ks Kd] (Two Pairs, Kings and Fours, Ace high)
Alnzy_t: shows [9c Th] (Two Pairs, Nines and Fours, Ace high)
gvn2fly collected $17 from Side pot #1
gvn2fly collected $22.50 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $41.50 Main pot $22.50 Side pot #1 $17 | Rake $2
Board [4s 4c 5s 9h Ac]
Seat 1: JT78 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Riplipp folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: LakisII folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BigMike folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Hopheads folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: gvn2fly (button) showed [Ks Kd] and won ($39.50) with Two Pairs, Kings and Fours, Ace high
Seat 8: KULUTTAJA (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Parabola3 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 10: Ragenbull folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[bspahn]

allin with [9c Th] ... hehe

there ya go at least you were able to find out.
it can be so frustrating thinking you likely made the right fold but you'll never find out what the person really had.