another london bombing

[vqc]

seriously wat the fuck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4703777.stm

i dont think anyone died but seirously wat the fuck

[a500lbgorilla]

*sigh*

Terrorists are teh gay.

-'rilla

[ZenOffsuit]

these people are scum. and they are only empowered by our limp wristed, politically correct approach to fighting them.

what will it take to wake everyone up?

[MNMP2]

what will it take to wake everyone up?

When they detonate a nuke in one of our cities.

Until then, same old stuff.

[vqc]

im so scared that someone I know will get hurt. Its even scarier for FTR as a whole becuase we are located all over the world.

[Greedo017]

let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

[Cocco_Bill]

im so scared that someone I know will get hurt. Its even scarier for FTR as a whole becuase we are located all over the world.

Don't be! We are all far far more likely to get hurt in a traffic accident than terrorism.

[Armstrong]

let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

LOL. I find that mean, but hilarious.

[a500lbgorilla]

im so scared that someone I know will get hurt. Its even scarier for FTR as a whole becuase we are located all over the world.

Don't be! We are all far far more likely to get hurt in a traffic accident than terrorism.

OMG! Think about all the FTRers that drive!!

-'rilla

[Greedo017]

let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

LOL. I find that mean, but hilarious.

unfortunately i think this is the only way to stop them. we're going to have to like invade egypt or saudi arabia or mecca or something, and when we start bombing the shit out of everything osama is going to release a tape that says "WTF?" and we're going to respond with wtf indeed asshole.

[johnnyawe]

Yeah, I'm sure if we took the two pronged approach of bombing random mosqes and invading saudi arabi and egypt, the terrorists will come to their senses and will have finally learned their lesson. Osama Bin Laden will renounce his errant ways, disband al quaeda, and all terrorist operations in the works will be immediatly called off.

Honestly, the only way to stop them is to kill or imprison them. You can't honestly think they would ever give up their cause because of invading their countries or bombing their mosques.

[midas06]

Yea I'm sick of it. It's only a small minority of the minorities that are doing it though. You can't go bombing mosques etc. Fuck terrorists. Anyone seen that website the "not scared" one?

[Greedo017]

better duck as my point goes over your heads

[Staresy]

im so scared that someone I know will get hurt. Its even scarier for FTR as a whole becuase we are located all over the world.

Don't be! We are all far far more likely to get hurt in a traffic accident than terrorism.

This may be true, but it's not very re-assuring when you live in London at the moment. Whilst London may have had a great amount of experience in dealing with a terrorist threat (the IRA for the last 20-30 years), dealing with this is entirely different. No warnings, indiscriminant targets....

Still, they've shot a suspected suicide bomber on the tube today. one down , thousands to go

[ihategnomes]

let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

Congrats, your fucking stupid and now voice the same opinions that terrorists believe. I just think this quote is WAAAAY out of line.

[Element187]

what will it take to wake everyone up?

When they detonate a nuke in one of our cities.

if that ever happened in the USA, we would discard the constitution in favor of a military police state.

[Element187]

let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

Congrats, your fucking stupid and now voice the same opinions that terrorists believe. I just think this quote is WAAAAY out of line.

agreed we cant just go around nuking countries that terrorist come from.


but i do support a harder stance against terrorism... maybe a new policy, if you dont help us with catching the terrorist in your country, we will be more then happy to come in and clean em out.

the only way to stop the terrorist is to kill them .. the liberal left in our countries want to invite them over for tea and crumpets .. spain folded like a cheap suit in the face of terrorism.. im glad britain and the usa have the balls to stand up to these cowards.

[geeftr]

I work near to London and news like this so close to home is disturbing. However the World is such a screwed up place at the moment that it doesn't surprise me. I despise these suicide bombers who take innocent lives as a means to protest their cause. If they have a legitimate grevience against the rulers of a country then they can protest peacefully rather than inflicting pain on its inhabitants.

I can understand why some groups are upset with the Western methodolgies as they are self centred and cause misery to untold people worldwide. However to react with suicide bombers doesn't do their cause any good and I for one (who admittedly had some sympathy for their plight) am beginning to loath these groups. We are heading for a police state as there is no other way to defend ourselves against such acts of atrocity. Even then, how do you stop a suicide bomber? I don't think its possible.

[a500lbgorilla]

No flame wars over differing opinions please.

-'rilla

[Element187]

I work near to London and news like this so close to home is disturbing. However the World is such a screwed up place at the moment that it doesn't surprise me. I despise these suicide bombers who take innocent lives as a means to protest their cause. If they have a legitimate grevience against the rulers of a country then they can protest peacefully rather than inflicting pain on its inhabitants.

I can understand why some groups are upset with the Western methodolgies as they are self centred and cause misery to untold people worldwide. However to react with suicide bombers doesn't do their cause any good and I for one (who admittedly had some sympathy for their plight) am beginning to loath these groups. We are heading for a police state as there is no other way to defend ourselves against such acts of atrocity. Even then, how do you stop a suicide bomber? I don't think its possible.

we can start monitoring speeches in mosques (ya it does infringe on freedom of privacy) and figure out who's spreading the hate preaching and monitor the clerics as well as the attendants of such preachings.

having good intel is a good start in mitigating the threat.

[vqc]

There is almost no reasonable way to prevent these kind of attacks, and anything unreasonable is inherently unfair in this situation. Then the issue of balancing what needs to be done and what is fair arises.

Has anyone here read "The Theory of Justice" by Rawls?

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

[journey075]

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Stockwell passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him," he said.

this seems a bit extreme. they subdued him and THEN killed him?

[vqc]

that does seeem a little extreme.

[ihategnomes]

we can start monitoring speeches in mosques (ya it does infringe on freedom of privacy) and figure out who's spreading the hate preaching and monitor the clerics as well as the attendants of such preachings.

This would be the same thing as monitoring every catholic priest to make sure they dont rape little kids. It just doesnt make sense. To monitor 98% of the good people to catch the 2%.

Public Notice: Percentages are guestimates and have no real mathmatical bearing. They are just there to serve a point.

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Stockwell passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him," he said.

this seems a bit extreme. they subdued him and THEN killed him?

Police were monitoring a mosque in Brixton where they were pretty sure a bunch of extremists hang out. One guy came out the mosque with one of those bomb belts and 2 plain clothed police officers followed him. As the guy got into London he noticed the people following him, and instead of stopping, he ran into a tube station, jumped the barriers and went onto the train. The police really had no choice but to believe he was intending to blow up the tube, and killed him.

They were very well organized though, as soon as the guy had ran in police had the entire area cordoned off and shouted at the commuters to evacuate the train.

The police officer who shot him 5 times was most probably given orders to kill him, and he just wanted to make damn sure he did it.

[vqc]

wat if i told u that every 3 out of 10 catholic priests were guaranteed to rape little kids? Would it be worth it then? 5 out of 10? 8 out of 10?

I think the issue is finding the balance.
Is it possible for u to disagree that some measure of deterence is required? If not, then the issue becomes a question of how much deterence is allowed.

What if someone proposed monitoring mosques only in major ports of entry instead of all mosques? Woudl that cause so little extra burden in the big picture yet provide so much extra deterrence to amke it worth it?

[Greedo017]

"Greedo017 wrote:
let's just use their logic and start bombing random mosques. maybe then they'd understand how we feel.

Congrats, your fucking stupid and now voice the same opinions that terrorists believe. I just think this quote is WAAAAY out of line."

i went around about how i should answer this. but i think the best way to answer, is specifically why is that out of line? is it not the truth (in the sense of a hyperbole).

[Greedo017]

doobeedoobedoo

[vqc]

could u link us to ur 50% stat please?

[Greedo017]

ok, sorry. i did misread the article, the support was for bombing specifically in iraq not worldwide. there is however greater than 50% trust in jordan and pakistan that bin laden will "do the right thing regarding world affairs." apologies for that mix up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn..._2.html?sub=AR

i do add to this though, IMO trusting that bin laden will do the right thing regarding world affairs is implicit agreement with terrorism in what has happened and what will happen. if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

my general point with this article isn't that things are looking down in the muslim world or anything. but, let's not sugar coat and act like a country like pakistan is full of a bunch of people who would turn in bin laden if they knew he was bombing a subway the next day.

[Theeggman]

The police officer who shot him 5 times was most probably given orders to kill him, and he just wanted to make damn sure he did it.

When did British police start carrying guns?

[ihategnomes]

Greed0017:

If you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between religion and countries, then its pointless to even continue this conversation.

[Greedo017]

and another brilliant post from ihategnomes, who has yet to make a point

i am finding it hard not to come off more extremist than i actually am. this all got started based on a comment by me, where all i was doing is pointing out that according to terrorists, something which would be a fair retaliation would be along the lines of bombing mosques. It was a simple point. i was saying a = b. bombing mosques = bombing the us&england civilians. but, did you think i was serious, that this is what we should do? did anyone think i was seriously saying we should go around bombing civilians? it was obviously just making a point. can you not understand how bombing mosques is the same as them carrying out their attacks on us? can't even take the time to understand a comment before you say "durr, he's said something about muslims, he can't do that". nobody even paid attention to the fact that i was obviously saying it to further point out the hyprocrisy of the terrorist viewpoint, not advocate violence against muslims.

[Element187]

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

werd up .. nice to know london is on top of this

[Corey]

just nuke the contries with terrorist suffer the losses of innocent people get it over with and save tax payers money.

[geeftr]

Corey I'm not sure if your being serious but if you are that solution wouldn't work. You'd have to ensure everyone in the country was exterminated. If not you would only succeed in creating the start of the first of many generations of terrorists. To ensure a whole population is exterminated is I believe called genocide.

On top of that nuclear weapons are somewhat unfriendly to the environment and dropping them at various sites around the world would in the long term be detramental to the whole of civilasation.

[Greedo017]

Corey I'm not sure if your being serious but if you are that solution wouldn't work. You'd have to ensure everyone in the country was exterminated. If not you would only succeed in creating the start of the first of many generations of terrorists. To ensure a whole population is exterminated is I believe called genocide.

On top of that nuclear weapons are somewhat unfriendly to the environment and dropping them at various sites around the world would in the long term be detramental to the whole of civilasation.

[geeftr]

greedoo17 - your shocked at my comments - and so you should be. It was written tongue in cheek!

[Greedo017]

glad to see a couple other people on here can have a sense of humor and put things in context without being asshats

[TheReverend]

Our thoughts, prayers, well wishes and blessings go out to all affected by these tragic events.

[DoGGz]

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Stockwell passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him," he said.

this seems a bit extreme. they subdued him and THEN killed him?

Rofl. If this were in the US we'd have europe yelling at as telling us were going over the line.

"THIS GUY MIGHT HAVE A BOMB! Ok we have him pinned, KILL HIM QUICK!"

[ensign_lee]

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Stockwell passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him," he said.

this seems a bit extreme. they subdued him and THEN killed him?

Rofl. If this were in the US we'd have europe yelling at as telling us were going over the line.

"THIS GUY MIGHT HAVE A BOMB! Ok we have him pinned, KILL HIM QUICK!"

From a somewhat objective point of view, I don't think that's over the line. So you have him pinned? So what? If he has a bomb on him that has something REALLY simple as a trigger, is it not out of line to think that he might try to pull it the second he gets up or while he's struggling, killing all the officers on top of him and everyone around him? I'd shoot him dead too. If I think he has a body bomb, he's dead. No more questions.

[DoGGz]

Police are taking no chances, which I think is brilliant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Stockwell passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers".

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him," he said.

this seems a bit extreme. they subdued him and THEN killed him?

Rofl. If this were in the US we'd have europe yelling at as telling us were going over the line.

"THIS GUY MIGHT HAVE A BOMB! Ok we have him pinned, KILL HIM QUICK!"

From a somewhat objective point of view, I don't think that's over the line. So you have him pinned? So what? If he has a bomb on him that has something REALLY simple as a trigger, is it not out of line to think that he might try to pull it the second he gets up or while he's struggling, killing all the officers on top of him and everyone around him? I'd shoot him dead too. If I think he has a body bomb, he's dead. No more questions.

Good thing a real justice system doesn't work like that. Killing an inocent man isn't worth it. The reports now are they made a mistake and he had nothing to do with the bombings.

[journey075]

you could sedate him or do plenty of other moves (possibly incapicitate him). if he has a bomb on him and is able to operate it while hes pinned on the ground it doesnt matter if the officers shoot him immediately or not since he will have enough instinctual reactions to press the button before he dies.

killing a possibly innocent man after he is unable to move is absurd. if you honestly think that the police made the right move there, youre thinking more out of fear than logic.

if they shot him as he was running INTO the underground then i have no problems with their thought process. the way they did it was too gestapo-like.

[geeftr]

Turns out the fellow was staying in the country under an expired student visa. Maybe the fear of losing his job / deportation could have caused him to panic. All in all it seems as though a tragic set of circumstances occurred here (flat he left was under surveillence, he had a padded coat on in the middle of summer, he made a run for the underground and reportedly the police could see wires in his bag but he was an electrician) and the police felt at the time they had no choice but to take his life.

I agree that holding him down and putting 5 bullets into his head was as journey075 put it 'gestapo like'. This incident is certainly causing the government and police force a lot of grief and rightly so. However it seems to me they are in a no win situation.

As I've said before - the governments in the Western world need to understand why people feel they need to become suicide bombers, i.e. what injustices they feel they are suffering and try to reconcile the differences. Otherwise terrorism will never end.

[underminedsk]

Great thread.

As I've said before - the governments in the Western world need to understand why people feel they need to become suicide bombers, i.e. what injustices they feel they are suffering and try to reconcile the differences. Otherwise terrorism will never end.

\

Sooo true. This is probably the most intellegent thing ive read on here. Hats off to you.

It seems to me that the one thing that should set the US, England, and the governments of the world apart from these terrorists and extremists is that we shouldn't support, encourage, or in any way allow the use of intimidation, fear, or the killing of innocent people in pursuit of our ideals. Sadly, in Iraq, and now in London with this whole episode, as well as other places, we seem to have fallen away from this.

[Zangief]

Great thread.

As I've said before - the governments in the Western world need to understand why people feel they need to become suicide bombers, i.e. what injustices they feel they are suffering and try to reconcile the differences. Otherwise terrorism will never end.

Sooo true. This is probably the most intellegent thing ive read on here. Hats off to you.

It seems to me that the one thing that should set the US, England, and the governments of the world apart from these terrorists and extremists is that we shouldn't support, encourage, or in any way allow the use of intimidation, fear, or the killing of innocent people in pursuit of our ideals. Sadly, in Iraq, and now in London with this whole episode, as well as other places, we seem to have fallen away from this.

I agree with everything both of you guys had to say.

Also, as for shooting the guy 5 times - I agree it seems like way too much force. Additionally, why would you want to kill someone who could possibly break the case wide open?