Help Me Learn Here Please

[hankr]

In the following hand, I am hankr. In many prior hands, I'd witnessed some smack-talk and aggression between Loded and WinCY WrigHT; bets higher than either of their hands would normally warrant. That's why I was in pre-flop against 3 others at 10BBs with QJs in the first place (plus I had position on the big pre-flop raiser).

At the conclusion of the hand, Loded (who lost) had a few choice comments for me as a "chaser" playing for "runner-runner". I countered that I was really playing 2 overcards in the big pot, with the Backdoor Flush and Inside Straight only secondary, and that he let me stay in too cheaply at the flop. And that the board, even with the pair at the river, probably didn't help any typically "strong" starting hands too much.

What are the observations of those more-skilled than me?? Where were the error(s) made?

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Hand #4378086-16960 at Oppencott (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 01/Mar/05 08:02:24

ornery is at seat 0 with $4.35.
nasisi is at seat 1 with $5.50.
jokker812 is at seat 2 with $3.70 (sitting out).
teflon88 is at seat 3 with $9.60.
videogirl is at seat 4 with $5.
Loded is at seat 5 with $10.64.
hankr is at seat 6 with $17.68.
WinCY WrigHT is at seat 8 with $12.99.
Royrock is at seat 9 with $9.90.
The button is at seat 9.

ornery posts the small blind of $.05.
nasisi posts the big blind of $.10.
videogirl posts out of turn for $.10.

ornery: -- --
nasisi: -- --
teflon88: -- --
videogirl: -- --
Loded: -- --
hankr: Qs Js
WinCY WrigHT: -- --
Royrock: -- --

Pre-flop:
teflon88 folds. videogirl checks. Loded raises to
$.20. hankr calls. WinCY WrigHT re-raises to $1.05.
Royrock folds. ornery folds. nasisi calls.
videogirl folds. Loded calls. hankr calls.

Pot = $4.50 (approx)

Flop (board: Ts 3c 4h):
nasisi checks. Loded bets $.50. hankr calls.
WinCY WrigHT calls. nasisi folds.

Pot = $6.00 (approx)

Turn (board: Ts 3c 4h 8s):
Loded bets $1. hankr calls. WinCY WrigHT folds.

Pot = $8.00 (approx)

River (board: Ts 3c 4h 8s 3s):
Loded bets $.50. hankr raises to $9.35. Loded goes
all-in for $8.09. hankr is returned $1.26 (uncalled).

Showdown:
hankr shows Qs Js.
hankr has Qs Js Ts 8s 3s: flush, queen high.
Loded shows Ad Td.
Loded has Ad Td Ts 3c 3s: two pair, tens and threes.

Hand #4378086-16960 Summary:
$1.20 is raked from a pot of $24.03.
hankr wins $22.83 with flush, queen high.

[mcpeepants]

I still would have folded preflop. If they are playing like maniacs I would wait for an actual good hand to bust them, as opposed to calling a 10x BB raise preflop with a marginal hand like QJs.

[Cavalry21]

Well, you sucked him out for sure, but IMO betting 1/9th the pot with TPTK is just begging for it, even without any good draws on the flop.

[hankr]

Well, you sucked him out for sure, but IMO betting 1/9th the pot with TPTK is just begging for it, even without any good draws on the flop.

Are you saying he under-bet the flop. and made it too cheap and allowed me to stay in?

Or that my call at 10:1 with only 2 overcards and backdoor straight and flush possibilities was ill-advised?

Or maybe both?

[stevedonel]

Preflop: fold for the 10x raise
Flop: you have two overs for 6 outs, and two back door draws for another ~1 out. A small bet on that kind of flop, normally means he has a monster hand. All that combined makes this a quick fold.

Nice suckout though

[Pyroxene]

I would certainly have folded pre-flop. But assuming you go in to start and based on your read that their pre-flop bets where not really a great indication of the strength of their hands:

You were 2.25:1 on the flop and you called for a 9:1 pot (which went 10:1 and I think you probably knew it would).

You had scads of outs on the turn, 2 overs, flush draw, inside straight. You are 1:44.1 on the turn and called for 7:1 pot odds. If he had AA you are 2.67:1 and if he had trip tens, you still had 3.4:1 odds so a 7:1 pot odds call is justifiable. I do not understand his turn bet, it clearly does nothing to protect a good hand, his All-In on the River indicates he was going to go to showdown so it does not seem he was worried about you having an overpair. Granted, I can understand him not wanted to put a lot of money in on a top pair of tens, but then why call an All-In on the river with that same pair of tens after three have fallen to the flush and another 3 has fallen for anyone that was chasing that. It's a good idea to get the money in the pot when you are ahead, not after you are way behind. He screwed that up.

Still, with QJs, I would never have been in the hand to start.

[Cavalry21]

I was saying he underbet the flop (and the turn). I also think he overbet preflop. These two combined gave you the pot odds to call with just about anything post-flop. I agree with everyone here that calling to see the flop was a VERY loose call, but from there on down I don't see anything wrong with the calls.

[hankr]

Admittedly, the pre-flop call was indeed VERY loose, and uncharacteristic of my normal game. But the way those two were going after each other for the prior 20 hands or so, it looked like an opportune time to take a whack at 'em. It was the fourth caller who I was most concerned with, because he was not involved in the rivalry / smack-talk the other two engaged in. Luckily, he folded early (which was important in my decision-making).

But I'm still quite new, and my opponent's post-hand comments ( a bit nasty) saying that I was stupid and a chaser gave me pause... I just wanted other opinions on the play (by both of us) at and after the flop.

Thanks