The Admission of a Fish

[Crunch]

I blew through my BR yesterday playing tournies. I gained a fair bit of experience, but now I'm forced to rebuy....and rethink. I'm doing alot of reading and studying, and came to the following conclusions about the visual holes in my game:

I play semi-bluffs too agressively.
I get married to big pairs and AK and cant get off them.
I play my cards without much thought about what everyone else has.
I have no ability to read a player and figure out what he's likely to have.
I play outside my BR because I get bored with micro limit games.
I dont gamble enough in mid-tourney which causes me to have to all-in too much just before the bubble.
I chase flushes too much and overvalue Axs.
I bluff unraised pots too much.
I get too tight when the blinds go up.
I push when I shouldn't and fold when I should be pushing.
I use pot odds as an excuse to chase when I shouldnt be in the hand at all.

And lastly, because of all this:
I am a serious fish.

I had thought my game was fairly decent, but there was something lacking. I never realized how much until my recent string of poor playing.

I want to be much better. I need help. What suggestions to these problems do you have? Is just knowing and avoiding the holes enough, or is there something I can do to unlearn my bad practices?

[lolzzz_321]

Look at ur list and do the opposite. Don't play too agressive. This doesn't mean don't play TAG, just not super aggro. Ru playing SNGs? If so, you can pretty much play like a RoCk in the 3arly stages. Um, post hands you that lead you to questio your play.

Avoid the holes long enough and you'll learn the right path.

[dalecooper]

It's just a question of discipline. You already know what's wrong... in most cases you already know how to fix it. Just find a way to do it, hand after hand, hour after hour at the poker table.

The only thing I see that you might really need advice on is reads. If you really have a hard time with this, I can only suggest two things: 1. play more - play as much as possible really, because experience will teach you more than any book or anything we here can tell you. and 2. pay close attention when you play. You may be guilty of just looking at your own cards and the board and playing that way, as most people do, without following the betting patterns at all. You should find after a number of hours (hundreds of hours really) playing, and watching others play, you'll start to just feel it. The way they call with certain kinds of draws; the way they bet out with top pair; the way they sit back and then come out like a snake in the grass with a really powerful hand. And when you can put them together ("they raised before the flop but not too much, then they check-raised the flop - why?") you suddenly will be making reads. Until it becomes second nature - ask, ask, ask. We're here to give exactly that kind of advice. And also receive it, because while some of us have lots of experience, none of us are pros.

[FlyingSaucy]

I think it's a good sign that you know your leaks. Just keep working on them. However the biggest problem I see is the fact that you could possibly sit down and blow your whole bankroll in a single day. It's hard for me to imagine this being possible if you are managing your BR properly, especially with only playing tournaments.

[jmontis]

Over time, i've learned that my biggest leaks for NL cash games used to be:

playing a-x suited (i've flopped an ace high flush maybe 2-3 times in a year of playing poker)

CALLING all-ins with semi-strong hands

playing AQ / KQ too strongly, these hands are dominated more often than not it seems.

Never under estimate the stupid players, they'll beat you more than the good ones will.

[Crunch]

Look at ur list and do the opposite. Don't play too agressive. This doesn't mean don't play TAG, just not super aggro. Ru playing SNGs? If so, you can pretty much play like a RoCk in the 3arly stages. Um, post hands you that lead you to questio your play.

Avoid the holes long enough and you'll learn the right path.

I'm still trying to find my game. I had initial success at MTTs, but I attribute that to being so excited to just be playing for real money that I paid so much more attention. Draining really. I try Limit Games at micro limits, make .30 on two hands and lose $2 on an all-in suckjob. I move around to some $10 max NL games and face the same issue with bigger values. I play $5 MTTs and SnG's, but with my initial BR, it's too costly to play 10 and not make the money. A.K.A. BR gone.

[Crunch]

The only thing I see that you might really need advice on is reads. If you really have a hard time with this, I can only suggest two things: 1. play more - play as much as possible really, because experience will teach you more than any book or anything we here can tell you. and 2. pay close attention when you play.

Good suggestion. I'm planning on planting myself down at a micro limit table and just playing solid. I can play forever at the microlimits without making much money or losing much money when I cant get wild with my All-ins. (Another leak). Just try to watch and learn I guess.

[Crunch]

I think it's a good sign that you know your leaks. Just keep working on them. However the biggest problem I see is the fact that you could possibly sit down and blow your whole bankroll in a single day. It's hard for me to imagine this being possible if you are managing your BR properly, especially with only playing tournaments.

That was a mental decision on my part. I decided I was going to play 10 $5 SNG's with the 50 I had left, to try to learn more about SnG's and get in some serious poker time. Try different strategies. Never broke the money once....just a bit down now. Trying to regroup and rethink the strategies.

[RiverMonkey]

Dare I say this, but have you ever thought about trying limit out for a while?

Before everyone jumps all over me and says that LHE and NLHE are drastically different games, or that NL is better than LHE for this or that reason (or vice-versa), let me preempt that by agreeing with that statement.

There are, however, definitely some trivial and not so trivial similarities to both games. For example, working on the all the various facets of pre-flop, flop, 4th and 5th street play are important elements of both games (some sub-concepts are common to both games, some less so, some are only really apply in one or the other) ... Adjusting to table conditions, table selection skills, adjusting and reading other players, working on your hand reading skills/reading the board, the psychology of patience and discipline, gaining a true appreciation for starting hand value and the value of position are all other common elements of both games.

I've said this before and I'll say it again ... look at the majority of the poker pros out there ... most of them play more than just one form of poker (LHE, NLHE, Razz, Omaha, 7CS etc, ring/cash games, tournaments, short-handed games etc.).... I think they do this for two primary reasons .... variety, and more importantly, to work on what we would probably all agree to be one of the truely important elements of great poker player, adaptability. The ability to be the Chameleon; the one who knows which tactics or strategies apply to a particular given sceanario. The one who can readily id when its time to change it up , the one who knows that its time to keep doing more of the same. Like we all keep saying for all things poker .... "it depends".

I too would like to become an accomplished NLHE player. However, the path I've decided to take is to try and become very good at LHE first, while sprinkling in the occasional foray into NL (mostly tournaments, home-games, and the occasional SNG for variety). This might not be the path you want to take, but I'm just throwing it out there as food-for-thought. This allows me to be exposed to both games so that I can begin to appreciate the subtle and not-so subtle differences and similarities, while limiting my downside risks. I think being able to understand the adjustments you have to make in each game and more importantly the underlying conceptual reasoning behind those adjustments are only going to make you a stronger, more knowledgable, all-round solid player in whatever game you eventually choose as your favourite.

My thinking behind my intial focus on LHE is that I want to be exposed to as much HE as possible during my development, but I also want to be prudent about it by limiting my downside risk. With LHE, the individual mistakes I make certainly won't cost me as much while I work on my game as they would if I was playing cash-game NL. Of course, this thinking also applies to fixed buy-in NL game structures too, like tournaments and SNGs. This allows me to continuely analyze and plug leaks etc. to improve my game, and by-the-way, also earn a decent amount of money while I'm doing it. (maybe not as much as some of the above-average NL players, but I bet my downsides aren't as big the average-to-below-average NL players')

I think both are truely, awesome challenging games and I personally would like to strive to master both. Attempting to become good at both is only going to make me a better all-round player. I'll consider really specializing in one or the other if and when I think I'm good enough to even begin attempt to acheive that lofty goal. But for now, I find myself most often, grinding away at the $4-8 tables offline, and $2-4 tables online. But, I have to say that I'm not very far away (I was so tempted just the other night actually) from taking my first $200 buy-in to the $3-6 blinds, $500 max buy-in NL cash game table at the local B&M just to see how I make out on my first real cash-NL-game "all-in".

[Staresy]

Hey Crunch

It's a good sign that u have identified the holes in your game. Another FTRer told me a while back that u need to be brutally honest with yourself in order to improve, which u seem to be. I have recently been through one of these "re-evaluation" situations. My decision is that I am going to try and specialise in a certain area that I think I am best at, namely SnGs.

I am also playing in freerolls for MTT practise and play MTTs when I have had a good day playing SnGs because (a) I have technically "earnt" the buy-in and (b) confidence is up.

However, I decided I really needed to look at my game and figure out what the f**k was going on! I have been recording all my stuff on an excel sheet with stuff like performance, player notes, tips from here, Cardplayer, stuff like that. Have also been studying my games a couple of days after I have played to see what I think I did right, what I did wrong and what I could have done better.

It quickly became apparent that I either blobbed out in the first 3 places or I made the money. It was strange and I never realised it before. So I started to study what I was doing wrong in the games I went out of early and what I did right in the games which I landed ITM. I have discovered that I was getting too involved, with too many chips, too early in coinflip situations. I am learning to be more disciplined now (I have also made one sheet of simple reminders, stuff like "be patient", "pay attention to the others on the table" etc) because I find that if it is written in large print right in front of me, I am much more likely to do it and much less likely to make rash decisions.

Also, when studying these games, u pick up on things that u sometimes don't even notice when playing. For instance, I noticed that one player really power bets his middle pairs from any position, one person frequently chases against the odds, another overplays top pair.

One thing u could try is just watching a SnG at a higher level than u play and just spend the game trying to work out what other people have got. It will also teach u to be disciplined in such that u are paying attention to everyone elses actions. Have a little checklist if needs be.

As some of the others have said, playing outside of your BR seems to be a problem. As much as u may crave those big juicy payouts that MTTs provide, my personal opinion is that these should be a reward for grinding out your money gradually either at cash games or SnGs.

Hope this helps a little?!

[Crunch]

I thank you both for your lengthy replies, shows the interest in helping me out. Much appreciated.

I'm waiting for my next buy-in to clear Neteller and taking the time out to watch games with good players. Last night I was watching ilikeaces86 playing in a Nl higher limit game and he was nice enough to answer some questions that I had about why he did what he did. All part of learning.

I also found out that I still had $3.20 over on Paradise, and decided to sit down at a $2 max table and try to watch what everyone else was doing, and only playing premium hands. It just seemed like I was more 'into' the game....more attentive. I was even able to correctly read a couple of the fishes hands while I was folded out. I played the balls off the good hands I did get, and ended up at $4.80 or so in 2.5 hours. I figure that to be about 15BB/HR. Winning has this effect on your confidence too..it was just what I needed.

I'm going to keep playing the micro limit and seewhat I can do with that $4.70. My first goal is to hit $10 with it by the end of the month, but this is really a side effect of trying to learn and playing tight against the fish. I'm quite looking forward to it, even though Limit is not my 'good' game. (I'm 15BB/100 in NL and -20BB/100 in Limit through 100 hands in Poker Tracker...not enough to go on but I believe it to be relatively indicative of my actual traditional play.)

Again, thanks for the help. I'll just be hanging around, trying to work on my reads and playing solid. It feels good to win.