Heres an old hand...how should the opponent have played?

[SmackinYaUp]

Ignore my actions, there is history between me and villain who was on tilt. How were his actions? I think he should have just put me all in on the flop while there were no scare cards.

This hand looks standard but the pot was fucking huge, and my bet was huge so he didnt have a chance to re-raise after the flop without puttin me all in. I think that his flop mistake totally fucked him and his stack. did he just get tied to it?

Any other chances for him to play this hand without total disaster or make a smart fold?


***** Hand History for Game 1708889855 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, March 09, 04:55:11 EDT 2005
Table Table 37285 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: SlappYou ( $134.35 )
Seat 4: J4life ( $74.95 )
Seat 5: KCK214 ( $277.75 )
Seat 7: Trinity78 ( $26.6 )
Seat 8: azzkikr62 ( $66.5 )
Seat 9: jcary02 ( $48.65 )
Seat 3: FoSaChys_Sis ( $46.15 )
Seat 1: Andy316 ( $46.6 )
Seat 6: Skagg ( $0 )
Seat 10: r1234aces123 ( $50 )
SlappYou posts small blind [$0.25].
FoSaChys_Sis posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SlappYou [ Kh Kc ]
Skagg has left the table.
J4life raises [$1].
SlappYou: seriously, it wont stop
KCK214 calls [$1].
Trinity78 folds.
azzkikr62 calls [$1].
jcary02 calls [$1].
r1234aces123 folds.
Andy316 folds.
SlappYou raises [$14.75].
FoSaChys_Sis folds.
J4life folds.
KCK214 calls [$14].
>You have options at Table 37519 Table!.
azzkikr62 calls [$14].
jcary02 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 3h, Jd ]
SlappYou bets [$30].
KCK214 calls [$30].
azzkikr62 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
SlappYou bets [$75].
KCK214 raises [$150].
SlappYou is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
KCK214 shows [ 3d, 3s ] three of a kind, threes.
SlappYou shows [ Kh, Kc ] three of a kind, kings.
KCK214 wins $60.65 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, threes.
SlappYou wins $283.2 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.

[mcpeepants]

Definitely reraised hard on the flop. He's pretty screwed when the king comes out though. Like they say, if you don't lose your stack here you played it wrong. You could just as easily have AA, in fact it's more likely when the K comes out.

[SmackinYaUp]

He knew i was sitting with either kings or aces. I guess my bet told him nothing considering the size of the pot. Basically he felt tied to the pot?

[mcpeepants]

Yeah. It's more likely here that you have AA since the third K fell. You bet big on the flop and the turn so it really doesn't show that you hit your set. Putting you on KK and folding there would be a tough move indeed.

[ensign_lee]

I lost a hand just like this yesterday. My 55 losing to the guy's KK hitting another K on the turn.

I like his play here. He reraises on teh flop? What are you going to do? Run like hell is what you're gonna do.

He smooth calls and hopes to get your stack in increments. Save the raise for the river...maybe the turn. He's got position on you after all.

Kinda stupid to reraise on the turn like that as only hands that own him will call, but other than that, I don't see how he could have played this all that badly. If he doesn't lose his stack there, he's an idiot.

[mcpeepants]

Ensign makes a good point. You would fold to a large reraise? What about a minreraise?

Minreraising the flop and calling the turn/river?

[SmackinYaUp]

On his defense, his turn raise wasnt terrible because it was the minimum allowed...it just happened to put me all in.

So you guys would have slowplayed the set too? I possibly would in a situation like this but there was so much money in the pot already, and still so much more to lose. He should have been happy with the flop pot and taken it right there. Sklansky books claim that when a pot gets huge, you should do everything you can to take it right now.

usually I play sets fast, but in this situation i dunno. maybe im just nitpicking a minor possibility in an unremarkable hand that seems bigger in my mind because of the huge pot (huge in my eyes at least)

[mcpeepants]

I don't think I would have slowplayed this. I think if you showed some aggression KK would PROBABLY call a flop raise and MAYBE call a turn raise feeling committed. KK can't just lay it down on the flop because of some slight aggression.

[Element187]

if i was sitting there with 3's, and you with kings

the flop gave me a set, i would try to knock you off the pot immediately because a preflop raise like that would make me think you have AA or KK

so ya i would be massively aggressive knowing i was up against KK, and find any chance possible to go all in with a good probability you would call ... in fact i only play pocket pairs for this reason .. to set and break high PP.


only times i think its appropriate to play sets slow, is when there was no massive preflop raise, and the flop came with no possibilities for straight draws or flush draws. soon as a draw presented itself its time to get aggressive again.

[a500lbgorilla]

Ignoring the preflop call.

I don't mind just calling the flop and pushing on the turn.

I'd probably push on the flop if you were needling me at the table.

-'rilla

[dalecooper]

If I thought for sure that my set was good on the flop, and you probably had something like top pair with a good kicker, or an overpair, I'd be very tempted to slowplay. Why not? A mega-raise there might push you out; but if you stay in, you've got essentially a two out draw. There's nothing else for him to fear on that board. Arguably he could have raised on the flop, but as far as safe poker moves go, slowplaying against someone with a two-outer is about as safe as it gets. I think the only hand he really has to worry about in that situation is pocket jacks, and that's less likely (based on the pre-flop activity) than a higher pair. Personally it looks to me like he just kinda got unlucky. In the long run you do probably make more money slowplaying the set on the flop and letting your opponent (especially if he's known to be aggressive) bet for you.

I don't have a fixed rule for trying to "bet someone out" when I put them on a draw. I think everyone who plays hold 'em understands the sometimes subtle difference between a scare bet and a bet you want to be called (no matter how huge it is). Against someone with four or fewer outs to improve, there's probably money to be made by slowing down. Against the more dangerous draws - flushes, open enders, or someone with top pair vs. your lower two pair - you probably want to get your money in quick and try to discourage them from calling. Sklansky would say the only important part is giving them bad pot odds on whatever their draw is, but the psychology of poker is such that sometimes, losing a pot you could have won by betting someone out earlier will cost you money - in the form of tilt, or just overly cautious play. Scared or angry poker is a money-loser, so you do what you have to to maintain that feeling that you can't be beat.

[DoGGz]

Whole Post

exactly. Why would you want to push someone out that is sitting with a 2 outer when he's putting his chips in no help required. If i'm him I slowplay the turn, he just gets unlucky.

[Element187]

the majority of people on PP never lay down aces and kings, you hit a set of 3's against KK or AA, just push youll get called.