Differences in High Stakes and Low Stakes

[vqc]

At the lower levels you can camp and make a killing off of all the people who limp into pots and see lots of pots. TAG wins the game.

At the higher limits I see, Michael1123 and Rada playing a completely different style. My question is, does everyone employ this style? Does the LAG style approach pick off the TAG style approach people bring with them from the lower levels. Are TAGs the fish at the higher levels?

[ensign_lee]

I hate to use the answer "it depends", but yeah. Position plays so much more of a role up in the higher buy in games because you can usually count on people PAYING ATTENTION to what the hell you're doing. Lots of people who move up from lower limits sometimes play scared (i.e. weak tight) and those are the people you can focus on. You can tread water bluffing top pair and stuff when you're fairly certain that they don't have anything they can call with until you finally hit that two pair / set that you wanted.

For instance, today, I ran 2 and a half hours and I caught top pair once...and that was the best hand I had during the 150 minutes I played. At lower limits, I wouldn't have been able to bluff just to tread water and not waste away from the blinds. Hell, until one bigger bluff failed, I was in the green after not having hit ONE flop. My PP's always had overs on the flop, and my bigger cards always ran into flops where there was a face card, but it was't mine.

[vqc]

What levels are u playing at?

[ensign_lee]

$400 at party.

That being said, for some reason $400 at party is easier than $200 at party.

[vqc]

Do u even bother with hand groups anymore? If youve seen Mike or Rada play, their hand selection is about 40-50% of all hands.

[ensign_lee]

Not really.

I try not to play K 2 off unless I'm pretty certain I can bluff a guy off the pot. :P

KJ and stuff like that I'll often fold now unless I'm trying to use them for stealing. That being said, I now prefer things like 7 9 suited and 8 10 off to KJ to be stealing with. I don't want the other guy to call with KA and have us both hit the king. I'll lose a little bit before I figure out I'm beat. Position and reads are insanely important.

And you always go around searching for that those rare gems: those rich fish that like to see lots and lots of hand. They're like meteorites that burn out. YOu've got to enjoy them while they're still bright and shiny.

[vqc]

Have u ever read Super Systems NL section and tried applying it to 400NL game?

[ensign_lee]

No, I can't say I have. I've garnered most of my knowledge of poker here on FTR and on pokertips.org . I haven't ever read any poker books, except for "bad beats and lucky draws" by Phil Hellmuth, and that was for amusement, since it really doesn't teach you anything; it's just a recollection of memorable poker hands for Phil.

[gabe]

Have u ever read Super Systems NL section and tried applying it to 400NL game?

you can apply this to the $100 game on stars. the most important part is your reads. if you have good reads, this system works great. you have to know who to bluff at and who to fold to.

[vqc]

i tried playing rada style in .05/.10NL at bodog. It was a waste of 10 bucks =). No Foldem holdem at its best. A 4xBB riase thats 40 cents doesnt quite have the same testicles as a 3xBB raise in 3/6.

[ensign_lee]

i tried playing rada style in .05/.10NL at bodog. It was a waste of 10 bucks =). No Foldem holdem at its best. A 4xBB riase thats 40 cents doesnt quite have the same testicles as a 3xBB raise in 3/6.

I really wouldn't try rada style down there. Sorry, buddy. Tight-Aggressive is still your best bet. Hey; it makes multitabling that much easier, right?

[jmontis]

vqchuang is so right, i've gone into a $.50-1 NL game raising any kind of marginal hand, and left with a healthy profit, because the bluffs work and people pay your hands off.

At 25 NL, if you raise a bunch of marginal hands and don't hit, you just bleed away money...

[Grand_MasterB]

i find that the biggest difference is if you pay attention it will pay off for you more. you can make all the reads and put players on hands that you want for lower stakes but rarely does it actually pay off. at higher stakes players are normaly solid and you can trust your reads more. at these lower stakes players may play totally crazy one day and tight the next. but at higher stakes players play more consistently. this is nice if you pay attention bc it enables you to win more pots by just timing bets/raises well.

[Element187]

Have u ever read Super Systems NL section and tried applying it to 400NL game?

doyles system at the 50$ NL tables and under dont work.. applying pressure almost never works at low stakes.

doyle is implying your playing at a 1k max buyin or greater.

[ilikeaces86]

I have noticed a big difference between high stakes NL ring and low stakes NL ring. The play at low stakes NL varies greatly from the chess match of a high stakes NL ring game. I have played thousands of hands at different levels of NL ring and have learned to adjust my game to my opponents. At the low stakes NL games I tended to do a lot more hardcore multi tabling where I basically just camped and let the fish make all the mistakes. At the high stakes I would usually only play 2-3 tables becuase of the fact that you cant just sit back and let them make the mistakes, you have to force them into making the mistakes you want them to. You have to use their own reads and intuition against them to lead them to believe you have the opposite of what you really have. I think a lot of players can beat low stakes NL ring by just having a 15% VPIP and just grinding away. At the higher stakes you have to be willing to trust your reads and be able to act on them with hundreds or even thousands of dollars at stake. The "bluff" is important at higher stakes. As you move up the ladder I would say you need to do lmore and more bluffing to win. You need to learn to represent a hand you dont have if you want to win at high stakes holdem.

[DoGGz]

Winner

I have noticed a big difference between high stakes NL ring and low stakes NL ring. The play at low stakes NL varies greatly from the chess match of a high stakes NL ring game. I have played thousands of hands at different levels of NL ring and have learned to adjust my game to my opponents. At the low stakes NL games I tended to do a lot more hardcore multi tabling where I basically just camped and let the fish make all the mistakes. At the high stakes I would usually only play 2-3 tables becuase of the fact that you cant just sit back and let them make the mistakes, you have to force them into making the mistakes you want them to. You have to use their own reads and intuition against them to lead them to believe you have the opposite of what you really have. I think a lot of players can beat low stakes NL ring by just having a 15% VPIP and just grinding away. At the higher stakes you have to be willing to trust your reads and be able to act on them with hundreds or even thousands of dollars at stake. The "bluff" is important at higher stakes. As you move up the ladder I would say you need to do lmore and more bluffing to win. You need to learn to represent a hand you dont have if you want to win at high stakes holdem.

[SmackinYaUp]

I cant wait until I need to come in here to post the hand histories of me trying to steal someones $100 big blind

[ensign_lee]

I cant wait until I need to come in here to post the hand histories of me trying to steal someones $100 big blind

Haha. You could do that now. Go into your hand histories and do a "find: replace", substituting all "0"s to "00"s. Then post here. That'll do it. :P

[ttanaka]

Hey, you guys mention Rada and Michael1123, but I though they were tourney players - are they mixing in the high stakes ring action now?

[JeffreyGB]

Hey, you guys mention Rada and Michael1123, but I though they were tourney players - are they mixing in the high stakes ring action now?

Yes.

[aleksandr]

Hey, you guys mention Rada and Michael1123, but I though they were tourney players - are they mixing in the high stakes ring action now?

In general, most of the best players in the world agree that high stakes ring is where the money is. Tournaments are still worth about 5-8x your buyin (for the best players) depending on the level of play, but being properly bankrolled for ring you can make more than being properly bankrolled for MTTs because you can buy in a bit higher, play more tables at once, etc.

[michael1123]

Yeah, I certainly agree with that, especially online where the biggest regular tournaments are around $200 buyins. I enjoy tournaments more, and consider myself to be a better tournament player, but I make a lot more per hour in NL ring.

[Trebor]

I agree with Ilike and Michael, I just wanted to add that by making urself unreadable you tend to make ur opponents easy to read. When they have a hand they let u know it.